Name and shame I say.
Is there another issue as well? I have a hazy recollection (I may be wrong) that we struggled for marshals last year the week after promoting the RR/City Centre Crit. This year we struggle straight after the RR and not long after the Open TT. Marshal fatigue?
We could look at tweeking the calendar to have a stretch of Thurs club events, then a mid season break from these to promote Open TT and RR, another week off to draw breath, then back into Club Events. The evening events could go on a little later in the year, particularly if we brought the start time forward for the last couple.
BTW. Loved Phil's post earlier in this thread about what it means to be in a club. Could go on the back of the membership card!
Thursday TT
Moderator: Moderators
I'm not sure it's marshal fatigue - all the same faces turn out (or send apologies and good reasons) - Mac, Arnie, Jess, Bernard, Muzzy and many others who I hope will forgive me for not providing an exhaustive list were there for the RR in addition to doing their Thursday night bit. What's missing is a willingness among the wider membership - including but not limited to those who ride the SPOCOs - to get out there and put a bit back in...
Marshal fatigue? There could be a bit of it. I'm almost never free on Thursday evenings so can't really talk, but take the RR as an example - I'd organised the Audax the day before and marshalled the open TT the week before, so I wanted my Sunday back. Not that I'm making any special pleas, but stuff like this will probably go with the territory of being an active club [Edit: I mean, we end up putting on lots of events near each other, contributing to marshal fatigue]. I supose you could say the problem is one of an active club that doesn't have enough activists.
Mike's internet idea looks good, but just beware that booking too far in advance can have pitfalls of its own. People will sign up in September, forget all about it and then commit themselves to something else before the day. It's probably worth a try though.
Since I've mentioned Audax, here's another idea: a marshalls TT. In an AUK event, anyone who helps on the day can ride the route in the fortnight before or after and get their ride validated just like everyone else. How about running an extra TT at the end of the series, open only to those who've marshalled at some point in the series? It won't cost the other riders any more (so avoiding 'sportive syndrome') but it'll be a good payment for the people who've put in the effort, or at least a way of saying thankyou.
Mike's internet idea looks good, but just beware that booking too far in advance can have pitfalls of its own. People will sign up in September, forget all about it and then commit themselves to something else before the day. It's probably worth a try though.
Since I've mentioned Audax, here's another idea: a marshalls TT. In an AUK event, anyone who helps on the day can ride the route in the fortnight before or after and get their ride validated just like everyone else. How about running an extra TT at the end of the series, open only to those who've marshalled at some point in the series? It won't cost the other riders any more (so avoiding 'sportive syndrome') but it'll be a good payment for the people who've put in the effort, or at least a way of saying thankyou.
Last edited by G. on Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Westhamwayne
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:48 pm
- Location: York
"Is there another issue as well? I have a hazy recollection (I may be wrong) that we struggled for marshals last year the week after promoting the RR/City Centre Crit. This year we struggle straight after the RR and not long after the Open TT. Marshal fatigue?"
No road race last year and the crit was the 25th Jul - the weekend after the cancelled TT, and the open TT was early season well before the series started.
Agree with Wayne - plenty of offers of help after the events cancelled. How do people think this works - does Heather have to sit with the membership list phoning people? She should have a simple job making sure there are not too many marshalls at each event - after all we have 300 members and they certainly werent all at the rad race.
Seems most suggestions we've had just make more work for the coordinator and I'm not sure about people volunteering months in advance - do they then have to be contacted to make sure they are still turning up?
Looking at the league table it looks like most people up for qualifying have already done a stint. My thought for next year is scrap the 10 circuit - too many corners & needs too many helpers and with 2 give ways and a u turn after the finish its hardly that safe! It would be back to where we were 5 /6 years ago with a proper hilly series - we could have Bulmer / Ganthorpe every other week which only needs 5 people to help inc. timekeepers. If it puts a few people off riding so be it. The organiser gets home earlier - after all this a club event series not the be all and end all!
No road race last year and the crit was the 25th Jul - the weekend after the cancelled TT, and the open TT was early season well before the series started.
Agree with Wayne - plenty of offers of help after the events cancelled. How do people think this works - does Heather have to sit with the membership list phoning people? She should have a simple job making sure there are not too many marshalls at each event - after all we have 300 members and they certainly werent all at the rad race.
Seems most suggestions we've had just make more work for the coordinator and I'm not sure about people volunteering months in advance - do they then have to be contacted to make sure they are still turning up?
Looking at the league table it looks like most people up for qualifying have already done a stint. My thought for next year is scrap the 10 circuit - too many corners & needs too many helpers and with 2 give ways and a u turn after the finish its hardly that safe! It would be back to where we were 5 /6 years ago with a proper hilly series - we could have Bulmer / Ganthorpe every other week which only needs 5 people to help inc. timekeepers. If it puts a few people off riding so be it. The organiser gets home earlier - after all this a club event series not the be all and end all!
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MichaelCarter
- Posts: 185
- Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 12:16 pm
The flat TT is very popular not only at Clifton but in all clubs for many reasons. I think the Clifton Thursday TT set up - which I'm sure a lot of thought has been put in to - is spot on. The mixture of flat, rolling and hilly gives something for everyone which I've always thought is a major strength of Clifton.
An online booking system can ask for contact details, list top volunteers, go live at anytime and cut out the need for organisers to constantly plead and feel frustrated. It could automatically email people closer to the event. It could give details about the courses, show previous results, no limit really.
The more features we give the potential marshal the more interest we will get. We could even be mean and only give certain features to those that have or have committed to marshal.
People use the web, there's been 583 people viewing this discussion in 2 days, that equates to 106,000 in a year - if we can't use the web to get a few marshals for a few races I'll be very surprised! The current way of utilising discussion boards and invitations to email is too clunky and the part time peripheral member who only wants to race will just leave the regulars to marshal.
I don't want to step on any toes, quite the opposite, I've been in the position of organising things and bashing my head against a brick wall to try to get people to help and it's no fun but very confident that needn't continue.
I've plenty of time on my hands to develop something pretty good next week if the consensus is "let's give it a go"
Michael (sorry for ranting but I've had a few beers to celebrate a solitary PB on the flat circuit tonight!)
An online booking system can ask for contact details, list top volunteers, go live at anytime and cut out the need for organisers to constantly plead and feel frustrated. It could automatically email people closer to the event. It could give details about the courses, show previous results, no limit really.
The more features we give the potential marshal the more interest we will get. We could even be mean and only give certain features to those that have or have committed to marshal.
People use the web, there's been 583 people viewing this discussion in 2 days, that equates to 106,000 in a year - if we can't use the web to get a few marshals for a few races I'll be very surprised! The current way of utilising discussion boards and invitations to email is too clunky and the part time peripheral member who only wants to race will just leave the regulars to marshal.
I don't want to step on any toes, quite the opposite, I've been in the position of organising things and bashing my head against a brick wall to try to get people to help and it's no fun but very confident that needn't continue.
I've plenty of time on my hands to develop something pretty good next week if the consensus is "let's give it a go"
Michael (sorry for ranting but I've had a few beers to celebrate a solitary PB on the flat circuit tonight!)
I only volunteered to marshal after it had being "canceled" because I thought, well if there is any possibility or it being resumed if they get volunteers then not lost anything anyway. If it had gone on as planned then of course I'd not have volunteered to Marshall I've not done many TT's and my plan was to ride them every single week. If I started them earlier then I'd happily marshal after doing 5 events.Westhamwayne wrote:Definately the right decision to cancel the tt. As usual same people marshalling every week. I have helped to marshal at 4 myself. Quite ironic that everyone wants to marshal once it's been cancelled. Maybe more people will put something back in to help these events to run!
What about a max number of rides before you must Marshall? Eg 3 rides and no more races until you've marshalled? Preventing people entering seems the only way to force their hands as it sounds like people are just doing enough not to qualify for champs etc? I've personally never done 1 of the tt's but have volunteered numerous times and a couple of times due to a last minute plea for help on the threat of event being cancelled I haven't been required By the time I've arrived (this isn't a moan about that!). Seems astonishing that the entries are so well subscribed yet it's a constant struggle for helpers! Personally it seems preventing people entering may be the way forward. Just my tuppence worth 
paulM wrote:Tell you what Will. After that I really wouldn't bother turning up at a Clifton event again!
PhilBixby wrote:"If I started them earlier then I'd happily marshal after doing 5 events"
<blood>
Bit immature those comments are they not? You have no grounds to say things like that.
I turn up to a time trial, I pay my fee like everyone else, I pay my club fee like everyone else.
If I want to ride an event, I shall do so and pay my fee, plenty of people from other clubs ride the events and I'm no different to them.
1:I intended on riding last Thursdays, so I go, pay my fee and ride.
2: I find due to lack of marshaling on a Tuesday evening it is announced as canceled.
3: I never knew before this thread that Tuesday has always being a cut off period for getting people for the events
4: I thought, well if there is the slightest possibility of getting the event resumed if people request then that is good, so I volunteer to marshall.
5:Then you get people complaining about people volunteering after it's being canceled, well I'd have ridden it if it was not canceled.. There is nothing wrong with that.
You can't tell me not to bother riding events after saying something like that, because I've not actually said anything that warrants actions like that.
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MichaelCarter
- Posts: 185
- Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 12:16 pm
I say fair play to Will for sticking his neck out. After all he did offer (ok it was too late) whereas others didn't.
I think the thing is though Will, this discussion should be about trying to find ways to ensure future events happen not specific individuals so no need to defend yourself or your actions. Others arrange these events and do loads compared to me or you so you're bound to get attacked if you dig your heels in!
I think the thing is though Will, this discussion should be about trying to find ways to ensure future events happen not specific individuals so no need to defend yourself or your actions. Others arrange these events and do loads compared to me or you so you're bound to get attacked if you dig your heels in!
Will:- Please read my post earlier in this thread about what it means to be part of a club, and if you still think I'm immature for my later comment, let me know. Clubs only work if people put back in as well as take out - membership fees and entry fees have nothing to do with it. If I got paid for doing the SPOCO risk assessments, police and CTT approvals I might see it differently, but I don't nor would I want to be. I'd just like everyone who benefits from membership to put a bit back in - before the threat of cancelled events. Does that seem unreasonable?
Will:- Clifton has around 150 members who ticked the "I'm willing to help" box but somehow organisers of every Clifton road event end up having to spend time chasing for helpers on top of the time they spend organising events. If that tick actually means "I'll help after I've ridden every event I want to ride or if the events are about to be cancelled" then that's slightly different, I reckon.