Professional Cycling....

Dr Dave · Post by **Dr Dave** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:15 am

Don't forget that the TdF is a team sport. If a member of the team is artificially enhanced then he is better able to assist other, clean, team members. It is therefore reasonable to exclude the whole team - quite apart from the incentive to be clean argument which I also agree with.

Arthur M · Post by **Arthur M** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:00 am

But they would also be indirectly assisting all the other clean riders who they ride with during the tour, so that arguement could potentially lead to excluding the entire peloton.

Someone at Liquigas may have known about or assisted with the doping, in which case penalise them - if possible, sack them. However, if there are parts of the team which genuinely are clean and did not know about the doping, I dont think its fair to make them lose their chances to ride the races. If the team manager was involved in the doping, then fine/sack etc them and others who are involved, its just that I have sympathy for the other riders.

PhilBixby · Post by **PhilBixby** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:28 am

Unfair though it is on individuals who suffer through no fault of their own, taking action against teams is the only way to get the teams - the central part of the pro sport - to take collective responsibility. It amazes me that every time someone's caught, the team manager does this "Oh my God! I never realised..." routine. I don't believe that other team members and staff can be in complete ignorance. I think action against teams would also reduce the likelihood of proven cheats being welcomed back with open arms - if you've led to a team being thrown off the Tour, it's less likely that another team will want you two years down the road.

Sadly the comment about national representatives doesn't cut much ice with me - it's a team sport, not a nation-based one. Maybe when we get more top-level road riders we'll have to worry less about Millar being The Face Of British Cycling...

MichaelCarter · Post by **MichaelCarter** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:38 pm

"if you've led to a team being thrown off the Tour, it's less likely that another team will want you two years down the road."

good point

"Sadly the comment about national representatives doesn't cut much ice with me - it's a team sport, not a nation-based one."

I only mentioned the Wiggins and Cavendish examples because it's one I guess we are all most familiar with. For anyone of any nationality, to be thrown out of a tour when you're innocent isn't fair.

Yes, punish the teams somehow but expulsion of the innocent from something they have trained all their careers for can't be right, if so, where's the incentive to turn pro?

But, all in all, and in response to Rob's initial question, there does seem to be a bit more of a feel good factor about this years tour, I'm enjoying watching it, and there seems to be more optimism for the future (or is my head in the clouds?!)

paulM · Post by **paulM** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:01 pm

"I only mentioned the Wiggins and Cavendish examples because it's one I guess we are all most familiar with. For anyone of any nationality, to be thrown out of a tour when you're innocent isn't fair"

Personally I lost a lot of respect for Wiggins last year when he was blubbing about the raw deal he had had when Cofidis withdrew from the Tour.
But hang on isn't that the team David Millar used to ride for who were caught up in a doping scandal even before he was caught?
Or as an example of how well they treat their riders isn't that the team that dropped Lance Armstrong after he came back from cancer but before he won his first tour?
Possibly not Wiggins' best career move. The responsibility is with the riders.