As someone who is hoping to start racing next season, this sounds very positive. The Yorkshire League, as mentioned, is out of the question if it aims to cater to E/1/2/3 riders, so something geared at those making their initial attempts to move into 3rd Cat would be excellent. Is there anything a newbie could do to help this get along? (I shall, by the looks of it, have a very empty January, so could assist someone on correspondence and form filling).
Has any thought been given to how the series will "hang together"?
Would the points system be "Best 6 finshes from 8"?
Could it reflect the NW league system that divides 2's from 3/4s?
Is there likely to be over-subscription to the extent that clubs are limited, and how would clubs (Clifton in particular) decide who to send?
A new North Yorkshire race league
Moderator: Moderators
Some quick thoughts in response:-
-We'll make sure we scream for help at an early stage when it's needed - at the moment the ball's pretty much in BC's and the traffic manager's court; sorting out initial approaches to NY Highways and working towards formal applications for the events.
- Aim is to run the events as "Regional C+" events so people get BC points for placings. Series placings haven't really been discussed but it could be a simple tot-up of BC points, or we could broaden it to include more finishers (say top 15 or 20 each event) or some other arrangement - suggestions welcome.
-There will almost certainly be a requirement to marshal at least one event, so it'll by default be an "X from 8" situation.
-Initial thinking is for one race each night but handicapped in category groups, so 4/3/2/scratch plus, if we want it, a novices/juniors group off before the 4ths. So, it should be a good way in for newcomers.
-I'm sure the series will be oversubscribed, so we'll at some point need to agree a policy, based around priority for "host" clubs. If we end up with more Clifton riders wanting to do it than available places, we'll have to talk!
-We'll make sure we scream for help at an early stage when it's needed - at the moment the ball's pretty much in BC's and the traffic manager's court; sorting out initial approaches to NY Highways and working towards formal applications for the events.
- Aim is to run the events as "Regional C+" events so people get BC points for placings. Series placings haven't really been discussed but it could be a simple tot-up of BC points, or we could broaden it to include more finishers (say top 15 or 20 each event) or some other arrangement - suggestions welcome.
-There will almost certainly be a requirement to marshal at least one event, so it'll by default be an "X from 8" situation.
-Initial thinking is for one race each night but handicapped in category groups, so 4/3/2/scratch plus, if we want it, a novices/juniors group off before the 4ths. So, it should be a good way in for newcomers.
-I'm sure the series will be oversubscribed, so we'll at some point need to agree a policy, based around priority for "host" clubs. If we end up with more Clifton riders wanting to do it than available places, we'll have to talk!
Just had an email from Pete Sutton (see below)...
I am reasonably free most nights in the next few weeks. Phil/Rich/Tom/Richard/Matthew/Fraz.... - Anyone want to suggest a few dates you can or cannot do?? Pete is willing to come thru so a meeting at Brigantes again??
If we have a date I could then see if the other clubs - Malton/VC Beverley/Yorkcyleworks and Dirtwheels want to come along
_____________________________________________________________
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Peter Sutton [mailto:PeterSutton@britishcycling.org.uk]
Sent: 03 January 2012 15:38
To: Brooks, Cameron [5NV]
Subject: RE: New Cycle in North Yorkshire
Cameron,
Yes I can come over to York on an evening....Will get dates from Mark beforehand...sounds like we could do 6-8 if everyone pulls together. Give me a few dates and I will see what I can do.
Pete Sutton
Regional Events Officer: Yorkshire
British Cycling, National Cycling Centre, Stuart Street, Manchester, M11 4DQ
Telephone: +44 (0)161 274 2000 | Mobile: +44 (0)7940 302079 | britishcycling.org.uk
The British Cycling Federation is a company limited by guarantee registered in England and Wales with registered number 3943494. Our registered office is at Stuart Street, Manchester, M11 4DQ. The contents of this email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete it from your computer. Use, copying or disclosure of the information contained in this email or in any attachment is prohibited.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent: 03 January 2012 15:33
To: Peter Sutton
Subject: RE: New Cycle in North Yorkshire
Hi Pete,
Yes Pete - it would be a good idea if we could meet up. I will have a word with the other guys at Clifton who have be n involved with this as well. Would be good to know your availability. Are you able to travel to York for a meeting and if so could you do an evening?
Malton Wheelers, Dirtwheels and Velo Club Beverley have also expressed interest in helping out with the series.
I don't suppose you have any idea as to what dates TLI plan to hold the EYRRL this year? Obviously we want to avoid a clash with them. I contacted Mark Robinson a few weeks ago but still waiting for him to get back to me. Nothing on the Hull Thursday website yet.
Cameron
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Peter Sutton [mailto:PeterSutton@britishcycling.org.uk]
Sent: 03 January 2012 14:55
To: Brooks, Cameron [5NV]
Subject: RE: New Cycle in North Yorkshire
Cameron,
Have checked all the courses Police said were OK and they are OK for BC races...Rich says he will do all races for £200 across the board, so a bit dearer for evening but better for weekend races, Can we get together sometime and sort the league out...YorkCycles are OK for 2. 6-8 races would be good.
Pete Sutton
Regional Events Officer: Yorkshire
British Cycling, National Cycling Centre, Stuart Street, Manchester, M11 4DQ
Telephone: +44 (0)161 274 2000 | Mobile: +44 (0)7940 302079 | britishcycling.org.uk
I am reasonably free most nights in the next few weeks. Phil/Rich/Tom/Richard/Matthew/Fraz.... - Anyone want to suggest a few dates you can or cannot do?? Pete is willing to come thru so a meeting at Brigantes again??
If we have a date I could then see if the other clubs - Malton/VC Beverley/Yorkcyleworks and Dirtwheels want to come along
_____________________________________________________________
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Peter Sutton [mailto:PeterSutton@britishcycling.org.uk]
Sent: 03 January 2012 15:38
To: Brooks, Cameron [5NV]
Subject: RE: New Cycle in North Yorkshire
Cameron,
Yes I can come over to York on an evening....Will get dates from Mark beforehand...sounds like we could do 6-8 if everyone pulls together. Give me a few dates and I will see what I can do.
Pete Sutton
Regional Events Officer: Yorkshire
British Cycling, National Cycling Centre, Stuart Street, Manchester, M11 4DQ
Telephone: +44 (0)161 274 2000 | Mobile: +44 (0)7940 302079 | britishcycling.org.uk
The British Cycling Federation is a company limited by guarantee registered in England and Wales with registered number 3943494. Our registered office is at Stuart Street, Manchester, M11 4DQ. The contents of this email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete it from your computer. Use, copying or disclosure of the information contained in this email or in any attachment is prohibited.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent: 03 January 2012 15:33
To: Peter Sutton
Subject: RE: New Cycle in North Yorkshire
Hi Pete,
Yes Pete - it would be a good idea if we could meet up. I will have a word with the other guys at Clifton who have be n involved with this as well. Would be good to know your availability. Are you able to travel to York for a meeting and if so could you do an evening?
Malton Wheelers, Dirtwheels and Velo Club Beverley have also expressed interest in helping out with the series.
I don't suppose you have any idea as to what dates TLI plan to hold the EYRRL this year? Obviously we want to avoid a clash with them. I contacted Mark Robinson a few weeks ago but still waiting for him to get back to me. Nothing on the Hull Thursday website yet.
Cameron
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Peter Sutton [mailto:PeterSutton@britishcycling.org.uk]
Sent: 03 January 2012 14:55
To: Brooks, Cameron [5NV]
Subject: RE: New Cycle in North Yorkshire
Cameron,
Have checked all the courses Police said were OK and they are OK for BC races...Rich says he will do all races for £200 across the board, so a bit dearer for evening but better for weekend races, Can we get together sometime and sort the league out...YorkCycles are OK for 2. 6-8 races would be good.
Pete Sutton
Regional Events Officer: Yorkshire
British Cycling, National Cycling Centre, Stuart Street, Manchester, M11 4DQ
Telephone: +44 (0)161 274 2000 | Mobile: +44 (0)7940 302079 | britishcycling.org.uk
-
GrahamMartin
- Posts: 149
- Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:04 am
- Location: York, United Kingdom
If I can make the decided time, I'll come stick my head in. 8pm would be the best start time.
Three questions:
Format: I've heard people state that these will be handicap races and others state that these will be 3/4 Regional B races. Which is it to be? 3/4 seems to make sense on one level as:
1) Less people are eligible to enter, and hopefully fewer entries will be returned (see other discussion thread).
2) If people fall under E/1/2, they can race in the Yorkshire Race League, which IIRC has more events advertised.
Timings/distance: What sort of start time and distance is being proposed? If evening racing is proposed, does this preclude running multiple events? If not, what formats might supporting races be run as? Women's? Junior? 4th only?
Media: realistically, what sort of local media coverage will we be looking to get? I ask this because its an area I have some experience in, and I know how desperate the Evening Press are for stories to cover. There's also a few 'indynews' websites out there which always want evidence of grass roots people organising stuff.
Three questions:
Format: I've heard people state that these will be handicap races and others state that these will be 3/4 Regional B races. Which is it to be? 3/4 seems to make sense on one level as:
1) Less people are eligible to enter, and hopefully fewer entries will be returned (see other discussion thread).
2) If people fall under E/1/2, they can race in the Yorkshire Race League, which IIRC has more events advertised.
Timings/distance: What sort of start time and distance is being proposed? If evening racing is proposed, does this preclude running multiple events? If not, what formats might supporting races be run as? Women's? Junior? 4th only?
Media: realistically, what sort of local media coverage will we be looking to get? I ask this because its an area I have some experience in, and I know how desperate the Evening Press are for stories to cover. There's also a few 'indynews' websites out there which always want evidence of grass roots people organising stuff.
I'd be keen that the events were done as handicap events (Regional C+, so points-scoring). I realise this opens them up to larger numbers but experience both with the EYRRL and the former Yorkshire TLI's was that after an initial scramble for rides in the first couple of events, numbers were fine. Evening races don't suit everyone, thankfully. The main benefits of handicap events are in respect of newcomers to racing:-
-Numbers in each group are smaller, so you're heading off in a group of 10-15 rather than sixty,
-We can set off a group ahead of the 4ths group for newcomers or those that aren't quite up to speed; as a number of people found out at Newbold last year 4ths can still be fairly quick on a good night.
-You're working as part of a group (at least in the earlier parts of the race) so it's more like training / chaingang.
-Numbers in each group are smaller, so you're heading off in a group of 10-15 rather than sixty,
-We can set off a group ahead of the 4ths group for newcomers or those that aren't quite up to speed; as a number of people found out at Newbold last year 4ths can still be fairly quick on a good night.
-You're working as part of a group (at least in the earlier parts of the race) so it's more like training / chaingang.
The function room has been booked for us at Brigantes for tomorrow night for 8.00pm onwards....
Fraz or Sam from York Cycleworks will be there. Hopefully Matthew from Malton Wheelers will be there also. Neil from Dirtwheels is unable to make it unfortunately. I spoke to Paul Waddington from VC Beverely last night. His club had their AGM this week and their participation in the new league was discussed. A couple of points that came out of this were that his club would be willing to get involved if there were some guarantees that some of their riders would get a ride. He said that Wilsons Wheels may be able to help also. Travelling distance would also be a factor. They do travel to events as far as Tockwith but would like to see a couple of events at least within a reasonable travelling distance for them.
Apart from these points we also need to (obviously) confirm what format we want the races to run and dates (I am hoping Pete will have liased with TLI about EYRRL to avoid clashing). Pete has also mentioned that he would need to recruit Back-up Commisaires to drive second car.
Fraz or Sam from York Cycleworks will be there. Hopefully Matthew from Malton Wheelers will be there also. Neil from Dirtwheels is unable to make it unfortunately. I spoke to Paul Waddington from VC Beverely last night. His club had their AGM this week and their participation in the new league was discussed. A couple of points that came out of this were that his club would be willing to get involved if there were some guarantees that some of their riders would get a ride. He said that Wilsons Wheels may be able to help also. Travelling distance would also be a factor. They do travel to events as far as Tockwith but would like to see a couple of events at least within a reasonable travelling distance for them.
Apart from these points we also need to (obviously) confirm what format we want the races to run and dates (I am hoping Pete will have liased with TLI about EYRRL to avoid clashing). Pete has also mentioned that he would need to recruit Back-up Commisaires to drive second car.
Last edited by Cam B on Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Quick update on meeting last night:
Phil, Rich, Richard and Tom from Clifton were there
Others in attendance:
Pete Sutton from British Cycling,
Rich Houghton (Community Traffic Management),
Fraz & Sam from York Cycleworks,
Matthew from Malton Wheelers
There was a lengthy debate about the format of the races. We noted that the main reason that we thought about getting this league going in the first place was because many Clifton members got their entries sent back from the popular TLI League in East Yorks. Those races are run on a handicap basis and we thought our league could be run in a similar fashion. The main concern about running this sort of format with potentially 5 groups of riders on the road is that - under the BC – we would require 5-6 cars on the road to follow each group. I guess we all thought that this was too big an ask… There was also a view expressed that many riders just preferred a straightforward race!, ie. everyone toes the line together at the same time. Bearing in mind these concerns, balanced with our original thoughts about starting a league which was challenging but not too challenging (!) for new racers, we thought we would keep the races for 3rd and 4th Cats only. We are planning to have six races in total. The first of these would be a for 4th Cats only and the other five will be for 3rd and 4th Cats. We plan to have them on a Thursday evening as follows:
17 May – Bishopwood – Hosted by Clifton
31 May – Escrick – Hosted by Cycleworks
14 June – Kirby Misperton (this is a new circuit) – Hosted by Malton Wheelers
28 June – Escrick – Hosted by Clifton
12 July – Brandsby – Hosted by Cycleworks
26 July – Kirby Misperton – Hosted by Malton Wheelers
60 riders in each race plus 10 reserves.
All the courses have been looked at by Pete Sutton, Rich Houghton and the Police.
In terms of hosting clubs, Dirtwheels and VC Beverley had initially expressed an interest but we thought last night that we could keep it simple with six events rather than the eight we originally thought of running.. It was noted that Malton Wheelers is a small club with no experience of running a race (although it is advantageous for them to get involved re: other race entries for their riders) and they may consider teaming up with another club to “joint host”.
Races will probably start at 7.00pm and be a distance of approx. 30 miles. There should be the facility to enter online via BC webste. You would not have to be a BC member (you would need to sort out a log-in and password though) to do this but you would then have to consider buying a race licence beforehand or buying a day license on the night. You will not find any of these races on the BC calendar just yet. Pete still has some further liaison work to do with Police and will get back to us in few weeks at which point they will go onto the BC Calender. Rider entry will be at the Organisers discretion but priority will be given to hosting clubs.
Rich Houghton’s role is to sort out traffic management on the night for us at a cost (£140 for Rich plus £60 per operative). It was noted that this cost may vary for each course and it was agreed that all the hosting clubs would share costs for the series. We would still need some marshals on the night and other volunteers.
The above is just a summary. If others present think I have got anything wrong or missed anything please say so. All of the above are our provisional plans at the moment and, as I said, the series will not be on the BC calendar just yet. When Pete gets back to us we will look to have a further meeting to get things moving forward……..
Phil, Rich, Richard and Tom from Clifton were there
Others in attendance:
Pete Sutton from British Cycling,
Rich Houghton (Community Traffic Management),
Fraz & Sam from York Cycleworks,
Matthew from Malton Wheelers
There was a lengthy debate about the format of the races. We noted that the main reason that we thought about getting this league going in the first place was because many Clifton members got their entries sent back from the popular TLI League in East Yorks. Those races are run on a handicap basis and we thought our league could be run in a similar fashion. The main concern about running this sort of format with potentially 5 groups of riders on the road is that - under the BC – we would require 5-6 cars on the road to follow each group. I guess we all thought that this was too big an ask… There was also a view expressed that many riders just preferred a straightforward race!, ie. everyone toes the line together at the same time. Bearing in mind these concerns, balanced with our original thoughts about starting a league which was challenging but not too challenging (!) for new racers, we thought we would keep the races for 3rd and 4th Cats only. We are planning to have six races in total. The first of these would be a for 4th Cats only and the other five will be for 3rd and 4th Cats. We plan to have them on a Thursday evening as follows:
17 May – Bishopwood – Hosted by Clifton
31 May – Escrick – Hosted by Cycleworks
14 June – Kirby Misperton (this is a new circuit) – Hosted by Malton Wheelers
28 June – Escrick – Hosted by Clifton
12 July – Brandsby – Hosted by Cycleworks
26 July – Kirby Misperton – Hosted by Malton Wheelers
60 riders in each race plus 10 reserves.
All the courses have been looked at by Pete Sutton, Rich Houghton and the Police.
In terms of hosting clubs, Dirtwheels and VC Beverley had initially expressed an interest but we thought last night that we could keep it simple with six events rather than the eight we originally thought of running.. It was noted that Malton Wheelers is a small club with no experience of running a race (although it is advantageous for them to get involved re: other race entries for their riders) and they may consider teaming up with another club to “joint host”.
Races will probably start at 7.00pm and be a distance of approx. 30 miles. There should be the facility to enter online via BC webste. You would not have to be a BC member (you would need to sort out a log-in and password though) to do this but you would then have to consider buying a race licence beforehand or buying a day license on the night. You will not find any of these races on the BC calendar just yet. Pete still has some further liaison work to do with Police and will get back to us in few weeks at which point they will go onto the BC Calender. Rider entry will be at the Organisers discretion but priority will be given to hosting clubs.
Rich Houghton’s role is to sort out traffic management on the night for us at a cost (£140 for Rich plus £60 per operative). It was noted that this cost may vary for each course and it was agreed that all the hosting clubs would share costs for the series. We would still need some marshals on the night and other volunteers.
The above is just a summary. If others present think I have got anything wrong or missed anything please say so. All of the above are our provisional plans at the moment and, as I said, the series will not be on the BC calendar just yet. When Pete gets back to us we will look to have a further meeting to get things moving forward……..
Last edited by Cam B on Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.