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Perhaps, but then it may have the opposite effect, where people are fresh and push too hard, setting the rest of the ride up as a 'burn up'. Maybe those who want to do technique based training should take a left of the top of gally gap and ride over to a circuit based around strensall common and focus on this rather than trying to do too much within the one ride? Long warm up then skill/technique session at the other side of A64...
They could even hook up with the main group later to ride back in?

That's certainly an idea worth exploring. I won't be out on Saturday but how about asking what people think of the idea?

I think we should just get on with doing what we are doing, which the majority are happy with, rather than splitting up into increasingly smaller groups and complicating things by trying to keep everyone happy. As Paul and others have said, it's about compromise, and it's only one ride out of the week. We'll end up with 20 people all doing their own thing if this debate goes on much further and where does that us!

Thanks for the suggestion Charlie, I think we should keep it as it is though. If a group split off to practice through-and-off around Strensall, one or more of the more experienced racers would need to peel off to help them. Who's that going to be? Someone with coaching experience?

As has been said many times, at this time of year no-one should really be flogging themselves, so even the slower riders shouldn't be on their last legs by the foot of Terrington Bank. Provided the run in from there is done at a relatively gentle pace, I don't see why anyone should be all over the road. More particularly, having BEEN there for the last bit of the past few Saturday rides, they're NOT all over the road - people are learning the skills. It's not perfect, but by March when we're all getting a move on, it should be pretty tidy and the work will have been worth it.

I agree with Mike; we've got two, possibly three groups now doing what they want to do. Can't we keep it that way?

I would prefer to keep it as it is

I'm going to agree with Charlie here, at least a bit Even if we keep the format the same, after Christmas when people want to start training properly we'll need at least two groups or the stronger riders won't be working hard enough and the newer riders will be going too hard too soon.

Arthur, I agree. But that's fine, by then there'll be enough people in the slower group who know what they're up to, or the more experienced riders could each take a once-a-month turn to stay with the slower group and pass on experience.

Why not just have one group to start and as people drop off the back a "broomwagon" group forms that will mop the less strong riders up or give a reasonably fast ride to those not wanting to race - still doing the same thing on the same route but at a more reasonable pace based on the idea that no-one gets left behind. If someone gets dropped at any point from the main group they just soft pedal and join group two.

Someone is nominated/volunteers each week to drive the broomwagon as Phil suggests.

This way everyone at least gets the chance to try and hang on with the fast boys knowing they will always get a group ride home, and as fitness improves hopefully the lead group will get bigger. This way everyone is motivated to give it a go.

Mike G - I'm sure Charlie can give chapter and verse from a coaching point of view, but my view is that the problem with the 'hang on till you get dropped' approach is that weaker riders end up going too hard at the start and then being blown. This isn't as good a workout as a more measured effort. Obviously there's a time and a place for the 'just ride till you can't hang on any more' as the racing season gets nearer, but the start of January isn't the time for people to be digging that deep IMO.

Good point Arthur. I was trying to be as inclusive as possible but as you say that may not be the best way from a training point of view. There will, of course, always be an element of this though as riders try to move between the groups or test themselves.

How would you propose to split up the groups or help riders decide which to join?

I agree with Arthur. Here's a suggestion:-

I'd guess that people will be deciding how hard to push on Saturdays on the basis of how early in the season they aim to be up to speed. I know Paul and a few others tend to hit the ground running and I'd guess they'll be wanting to up the pace pretty much straight away after the New Year. So that's the front group.

If I'm going to take Joe Friel seriously (and having bought the book and done the training plan, I may as well) then I don't need to be doing anything with my Saturdays beyond brisk aerobic rides until well into Feb - I'm not targeting any races until May. I'd be happy to coordinate the slower group for the next couple of months if others will then take turns after that. Pace about like yesterday's ride (about 17.5-18mph ave), steady on the hills, concentrate on riding safely as a group. Practice through-and-off at a steady pace, maybe try some sprints in pairs.

Does that sound okay?

That sounds a good plan to me Phil. I'll be riding with you as I don't want to attempt to pick it up too much for another 6-8 weeks. I think we will have a fair sized group too. Who else is in?

What do those picking up the pace earlier plan to do differently from January then?

I'm not sure many people will be picking up the pace much in January, it's just that a tempo ride for a 2nd cat is going to be a very hard ride for someone just getting into racing

So what kind of speeds will you be planning to do Arthur?

Speed is pretty irrelevent at this time of year I feel. I could say '20 mph' but that's nothing with a tail wind or might be impossible with a March 'breeze' against you. Roughly speaking, my idea for what I will be doing on Saturdays for the next month or so is a 2 1/2 ride, Square to home with 90 minutes at a solid 'tempo' pace in the middle.

Just to be novel, I'm basing training this year on this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Training-Racing ... F8&s=books

So if you're bothered, for me at the moment that equates to averaging ~220W
for the middle bit, based on a threshold of 250W (*)

I'm sure the result of all this planning is that I'll be a crap 4th cat as ever, but it keeps me interested.

(*) For those keeping score, that's not very good, but it's also down a fair bit on the summer when it was ~280W so I expect it to pick up back to that level fairly quickly.