Topic Title

All reports I've had are that the return to the advertised format of 2 - 2.5 hours brisk riding was well received. Also heard that Arthur put a lot of effort into introducing/coaching the new recruits in the joys of pace-line riding.

More of the same planned for next Saturday with, hopefully a split into 2 groups. This is a good time to get out and start getting involved.

R

Sounds excellent
We have visitors this weekend and the following is my lads birthday which also clashes with Stephs mtb ride
Looks like the first one i can make is Dec 9th
Its in my diary
Gives me a few weeks to do something about my legs
MA

I heard they were attempting to tap through (in Novemeber?), which resulted in the whole group actually slowing down and becoming less organised.
All that needed to be done was people talk about the route and when to get back and everyone is happy. Doing the same route week in week out WILL result in staleness...

We were going round yes, but slowly. Not hard. Yes, this resulted in the whole group slowing down, but it also meant that the newer riders got a chance to learn how it works at a easy speed and low effort level. While it can be seem better for the stronger riders to just sit on the front and pull everyone along, that way people don't get a chance to practice things and work it all out safely. This also means that the stronger riders won't get a hard enough ride; that's ok.

As you imply, going 'through and off' in November would be madness. Showing people how it works and getting used to working in a group isn't.

At the end of the ride, we stopped in Haxby and I asked everyone what they thought. Everyone there was keen on the slightly more organsied approach.

I agree that doing the same route every week will get stale, but that's not being proposed. The route can vary as people want, but the idea will be to keep it to around the 40-45 mile mark rather than the 60-70 mile mark.

None of this precludes people that want to do a longer ride meeting at the square and taking along those that want to go. No one ride is going to suit everyone.

I agree with Arthur that no one ride is going to suit everyone and I'm sure there'll be some people longing for those apparently endless jaunts off across the Wolds. But as a club training ride the aim should be to enable the members of the club to train. People that want a social ride won't come, as they'll be out with Kev, so the assumption is that this is the more sport-oriented end of things. Within that though there's still a wide range of abilities and - perhaps more importantly - a wide range of levels of experience.

Part of the purpose of the ride should surely be about learning how to ride in a group. That shouldn't mean learning to ride for 45 miles on Tony's (or my, or your) wheel, but should comprise group riding skills that they'll need in racing, which includes rolling through and taking turns. A number of people have commented to me how dangerous things used to get on the through-and-off bit of the training ride last year; the reason is that people hadn't had the practice.

This means the group has to go at a pace that everyone can cope with, although the slower riders should have steam coming out their ears. If there are enough people out on a Saturday then we can split into two groups as has been suggested. Hopefully that'll provide a closer match between individual needs and group needs.

The price to pay for that is that we need to think a bit in advance about routes, to enable the two groups to start off together, for the slower group to then take a shorter route, and for them then to rejoin on the return leg to give it some welly. Any suggested routes that fulfil this possibility, Charlie, gratefully listened to. Or indeed alternative formats that would be any better for keeping everyone happy.

Charlie - I know what you mean about repeat routes, boredom and staleness. However, for those of us working towards a new racing season the Saturday ride is just 45 miles out of what.. ..150-200 or more miles a week, so there's plenty of chance to explore the unknown backroads. Keeping the training ride on a limited number of routes - say two or three - seems to make it easier to manage for the group as a whole, for the reasons set out above. However.. I'm very open to other suggestions... what d'you reckon?

Just chucking my comment in to support Phil and Arthur here.

Sensible comment from Charlie about through and off in November, let's just keep making sure nobody's going mad and ensure it is skills training/practice rather than cardio-vascular pummeling.

Its important for us to promote a range of organised rides - can't all be social cafe runs.

Sure. It was rolling round at 16mph We slowed down as a group to let everyone roll round. By the time we got to Haxby, we were getting the hang of it as well.

I think we all agree it's madness to be battering oneself in November!

Cheers,

Arthur

Agree with several set routes of similar duration, rather than just one.

Now lets agree some!

As I do a long ride on Sunday, I would prefer it if the Training Ride was fixed at 2 - 2.5 hours. I don't understand how doing the same route can cause staleness (as long as the route has a variety of terrain) - surely, we're doing the ride to train and test ourselves athletically - not to admire the view (or is the argument that we should be only going into this mode later on - say after Christmas?). I hope that at some time in the following few months we can settle on a small number of fixed routes - that way riders are able to gauge progressions in their fitness by comparing how they are feeling / performing at different stages in the ride over successive weeks. I realise this may be of less value to very experienced / fit riders who may find it easy all the way round. I welcome the opportunity to practice pace line techniques at an easy pace. In the chain gang I found it hard to concentrate on technique when feeling challenged by the speed.

"Now lets agree some!"

Yessssss! Come on folks, your starter for ten:- 2-2½hrs, varied terrain, roads generally safe all winter, not too much traffic. Possibility of slightly shorter route for slower group, so they can peel off and catch up at the end.

Who's first?

Let's get the obvious two in first then.

Malton/Terrington
Leppington/Lavening/Kikham

Should also be possible to do some routes based around B'bridge and maybe something based around Tadcaster/Thorner?

To follow on with my knack of stating the blindingly obvious..... using different routes is fine as long as you publicise them beforehand. One big plus of a fixed route is that those struggling to make the start time for whatever reason can chase you down or ride the route backwards to meet you half way.

Cheers

R

I think we should stick to heading out along Stockton Lane - its a quick and safe route out of town onto the best training roads. I also think the route is largely dictated by who's out, and the weather. I've been thinking for some time that the Leppington loop is not the best route for a group training ride - narrow, muddy & often icy and the steeper climbs just disrupt the group. I also think much the same of the Kirkham section - a level crossing, a steep climb which always means some hanging about at the top and then we ride down the fast lane of a dual carriageway!
Come on - the route we rode today - Buttercrambe - Malton - Coneysthorpe - Terrington is on better roads, longer, steadier climbs - much easier to control a group. We should have enough for two groups - a second group could turn left at the top of gally gap, cross the A64 at the bottom of Whitwell and ride up the Castle Howard road and turn left at Coneysthorpe which would put them in front of the fast group. If both groups set off together everyone would need to be aware of where the split would take place.
Personally I don't see the need for multiple routes as in reality most will only be partaking upto March - thats not that many Saturdays even if you rode them all.

I probably won't make any of the rides myself, so I was reluctant to contribute, but my experience of the chaingangs out that side back up what Paul says.

We used to take much longer turns as well, changing at the end of Stockton, Buttercrambe, Gally Gap, Malton, Easthorpe and Terrington. This really daunted me at first, but the rule was that you rode your turn steadily. You rode it harder as you got fitter, but always steady. If there was a slower rider in the lead on the climbs everyone geared down and kept their position - it kept the group together and showed some mutual respect. I felt this built a better fitness base than short turns, especially at this time of year.

On a safety note, I will not cross the A64 at Kirkham again on any ride. Better to drop down through Howsham to Barton Hill like Rob says. You can always then ride up to the monument on Castle Howard drive to compensate for missing Kirkham.

Nick