Clifton CC

After some of the recent posts, I would like to kick off what I hope to be a constructive discussion about the 8:45am ride.

Steve Arris and I volunteered to try and get this ride off the ground because we thought there was some demand for it based on a very long forum post before Easter with lots of contributors. It has proved to be very popular with a fairly regular turn-out of 14 to 18 people. The ride has run week-in and week-out for quite a while now mostly guided by me and Steve but also with contributions from Allan, Karl and others which has been great.

Over time, the ride has got progressively quicker. This is partially because everyone gets fitter at this time of the year and also because the most regular riders are hoping for a brisk ride. But this has meant that a lot of people have been put off and there have been a number of negative posts on the forum about the ride being too quick. I have found myself on the rides going backwards and forwards trying to mediate a pace that suits most people but ultimately it is hard to find a pace that will suit a large group.

From other forum posts and from my experiences on the ride, it is clear that there are a lot of people who like the idea of a morning ride but want one that is a bit slower in average pace.

Both Steve and I have tried un-successfully to split a large turn-out into two smaller groups. After I tried, the faster riders kept going without looking back meaning the whole group split up and some riders had to drop off. This is not really the aim for this ride and I think this is justifiably one of the sources of complaints across the forum. We have tried to solve this problem by encouraging regular re-grouping stops but this is only partially successful. I think that really we should split this ride in the Square if there is a large group with one slower group and one faster group.

But we have had a lack of volunteers to guide a group that we aren't in or just plain opposition to the very concept of splitting a large group so I'm not sure that it would be possible. My other concern is that if we routinely try to split a large group based on speed, this will have a knock-on effect on other Clifton rides. So this is not something either Steve or I want to consider before we've sought a wide range of opinions.

So please can we have some healthy debate about what people want and ideas on how we can make it happen?

Clearly both Steve and yourself must be commended for setting up this ride which is justified by the numbers of riders doing it.
Having done a good majority of these rides from its onset, I have found that the pace has ramped up beyond my capability. That's fine, the group will always follow the will of the majority, and so it should. Interestingly, a couple of faces I have seen on this ride I also saw bombing around York city centre on sunday (well done guys!!)
However, the pace does vary from week to week, and at varying points in the ride as was commented by Jon G. And contrary to the comments made by Tullio, a number of people (myself being a regular) have been dropped over the weeks - even the earlier weeks. And furthermore, a number of new (but experienced non clifton riders) have tried the ride, in the belief that they were joining an intermediate style ride, only to find it a bit too much. So perhaps brisk but social means different things to different men.
After last Saturdays pace, I decided that it was time for me to go it alone as I have recently been getting dropped earlier and earlier in the ride.
However, after discussion with Steve and Karl and further prompted by your post, I would like to make the offer to lead out a B group 845 ride this Saturday. Same route as the A group 845, just setting off a couple of minutes later. The training ride has done this successfully, I believe.
The parameters will be a max speed on the flat of 20mph and an aim to average somewhere between 16 and 18mph for the ride, a bit like the old intermediate group but 'sans café stop'. Nobody will be dropped. Let's see if there are any takers and we will see where we go from there.

Full marks to Reuben for kicking off both the ride and this more recent re-evaluation, and to Allan for proposing one solution. Sitting on the sidelines I find it fascinating; happy memories of attempting to split the training ride into "brisker" and "steadier" groups and having everyone pile into the "brisker" group - whereupon half of them get dropped. It's not about the legs - it's about thinking a bit.

Winding up the pace without considering others on a ride like this is just rude. If you want to show off how strong you are, put a number on your back and do some racing. And then switch to the training rides. If not, then you've no desperate targets to flog yourself for, so have the courtesy to ride at the group's pace. If you're a bit stronger you can spend a bit longer on the front. If it's really all too pedestrian for such a magnificent athlete as your good self then start your own fast group ride and post it on here - and stop making life a misery for the poor s**s who week in , week out try to make this ride work for the club as a whole.

End of chat!

Warning:- may contain opinions...

Firstly I must apologise for calling this a " training ride " in my previous post !!

My only criticism of this ride was

Road Hazards / Potholes NEED to be SHOUTED OUT !!


Last Saturday was a very expensive day for me !!

2 damaged wheels !!

Whilst I appreciate that this could have happened on any road and in any group

When riding in pairs and at speed the risk of hitting a pothole is greater !!

I have already posted on this topic !!!

Enough said !!

Ok.here goes my 2 penneth. When this magnificent 8.45 was set up.things were great.where people were allowed to stretch the legs on the climbs.that's training in my opinion.but we all stopped and waited for the last person to get there and didn't set off until everyone had recovered.that's the social bit in my opinion.it's obvious there's different abilities in the group so why don't the stronger ones drop back and help tow the struggling ones back on from time to time. I'm a big fan of the 8.45 rides.so let's all do our bit to make it a good ride for everyone.

The two posts from Reuben and Phil, in particular, make the central point that individual rider attitude and commitment to others is the key to successful riding. From a structural point of view, my wide experience of riding/racing/training in several parts of the country suggests that only one approach really works for the type of ride originally conceived of by the group. It is:

1. Each ride has a good leader and capable rider.
2. The same rides are generally repeated.
3. The ride is published as having an average/maximum speed which the leader holds the group to. If it is an average and you are behind, the leader will encourage a move on and, vice-versa, a slow-down.
4. The route is pre-published, so riders can choose when they may wish to bail out.

In essence, this type of ride requires vocal leaders and clear parameters, known by all, beforehand

Andy

This ride is probably great for kicking a few old blokes and preserving my ego, can I play too

All good comments. Might I just reinforce the views of those who have recognised that there is a knock-on effect on other club rides. Specifically the 10am Intermediate ride has seen a marked reduction in participants since the 8.45 ride became established. Fair enough - riders will select the ride that suits their needs. It would be a shame though if other rides died a death due to lack of numbers. Kev might have a thrombi if bereft Inters riders looking for an all day ride inveigled their way into the K ride

Thanks everyone for your comments, thoughts and advice.

The trial of having 2 groups of different speeds at the weekend worked well, by all accounts.

The brisk 8.45 ride averaged about 19.5 mph
The steady group was just under 18 mph

This seems just about ideal, and seems to cater for most people's needs and abilities.

The split was very much needed, as there was a turnout of about 20 again in the square, with some more people picking up the rides on route.

So I think it's time to wrap-up this particular discussion.

Thanks again everyone.

Best wishes,
Steve.