Clifton CC

[Relates to the £750-£1000 Road bike thread, but a different question really so I've created this topic].

I'm trying to put together a ~1000 pound race bike, and I'm keen on the idea of an alu-alloy frame with carbon rear-end, partly for price reasons, partly because of a mistrust of carbon bikes for 90kg fatties.

Speaking to the bike centre in Selby, they tell me they do an Iceni alu/carbon race frame for around 300. But Iceni seem all but invisible on the web, so I've no idea what they are like. Also for that money, a Kinesis Racelight RC2 seems an option (especially in the fetching red colour).

Anyone ridden/know either of those frames and have an opinion? Or is there another UK combination frame I've missed?

(I also discovered that prices on some imported gear - Shimano, Giant etc - are now so volatile that they can't quote catalogue figures, they have to phone the distributors for each order. Trying times...)

thanks
Tom

I've ordered a Kinesis Gran Fondo - similar to the RC2 but with a slightly more sportive orrientated geometry. It's hopefully getting made up this week so I'll be able to report on it before long.

I have to say that I would have no reservations about getting a carbon bike if I were 90Kg - I rode one when I was 80+ with no concerns. Get yourself one of those Boardmans!

I have an RC2 which I use as a winter hack, its now in its second year and has served me well. I used it in last years Richmond 5 dales and found it comfortable for the whole 6 1/2 hours that my backside was perched on it. I weigh in at a hefty 87kg so its reasonably robust.

I dont think you could go far wrong with it for the price and the aftersales service from upgrade bikes is very good too should you have any problems, they also come with a 5 year warranty on the frame.

Thanks both for the positive feedback. I nearly ordered an RC2 frame in XL today, but then checked the sizing and found this.
Can anyone explain what's going on with the sizing of the '55'?



It looks like, for a 4cm increment in seat tube over the '51', you get 5-6mm of top tube length.
Seems weirdly out of kilter with the other sizes and suggests an odd high+short shape.
I emailed Upgrade bikes but no response yet. Anyone understand this?

cheers,
tom

Presumably you are able to vary the effective top tube length by using different stem lengths to suit?

Yes... the thing is, I know that I've got quite a long reach and at 6'3 I need a decent length bike, so it seems a bit silly to buy something that seems to be made for guys who are all legs and no back (if I've got those numbers right) and then add a monstrous stem to compensate.

By comparison, the Planet-X aluminium XL racer has a 570mm actual/ 590 mm flat equivalent top tube length (and costs a princely 140 quid while weighing ~70g more).

Back to the pondering board...

Tom, are you happy with your current bike? top tube length etc.

Dave - As a trainer/commuter it's comfortable enough, for racing I feel like I'm sat up too much so I'd like a longer bike.
Just measured it - if I got it right it's 57cm centre-centre top tube sloping; measuring back from the centre of the top/head junction along a horizontal line to the centre of the seatpost I get about a 58.5cm 'equivalent' top tube. Stem is 120mm c-c.
So I reckon going any less than that isn't good.

Aswell as considering top tube length, the head tube length presumably is shorter on the bikes you are considering than your commuter bike..

My winter bike is the same saddle to handlebar distance as my race bike, difference is headtube length and handlebar height, by 20-40 mm depending on stem angle and spacers.

FWIW I'm only 6ft but with short legs/long back. My Ribble has a C-C top tube length of 58cm.......

Dr Dave - similar proportions, a bit more height. So I think it's reasonable to be after around 60cm top tube and then stick a 135mm stem on that. I think I'm flexible enough to keep to that; when I've got aero bars on the current bike, I'll happily sit on them for a 2hr ride (give or take the odd tight bend).

Dave C - good point. Think I've started on frames from the wrong angle - reputation, material and price - when in fact I should have started with geometry since that matters to me. The existing bike - a lowly Dawes Giro - is actually fairly tight it seems:

Top tube c/c - 57 effective 58.5; head tube 19cm; and the top of the headset is another 8cm above the top of the tube. However, the clearances give a longish wheelbase of 102cm.

I read a rough-and-ready guide that, in the drops, your view of the front hub should be obscured by the handlebar; mine is about an inch proud of that. So the idea of adding 2cm or so to the seat/bar length seems fair.

Looking around, a Planet-X superlight would give me about 5mm more toptube and only 18cm head tube, so seems 'racey'; while a Kinesis KiC2 (one up from RC2) gives a good 60cm effective toptube but a 21.5cm headtube, which would sit me back up again (unless I cut down on spacers; I don't know what a 'normal' range is for that).

I daren't even think of crank lengths...

cheers
tom

you could always get measured at a bike shop and let them have the headache of stem lengths etc.

People in the past have recommended racescene as a place to go, pretty sure bike shops in york provide a similar service

Tomf - you're stumbling about in the dark here.
Start with the measurements and then think of the bike.
I would recomend Racescene in Barnsley as I've been measured there a couple of times and they do go to a lot of trouble. They will give you a print out to take away but if you don't get a bike from them will charge you £60! However they are very experienced and if you tell them what you want and how much you want to spend they will take care of it - they will match frames to components to get the position exactly right. Cycle Heaven and Evans will also measure but after that I'm not sure what they will do?
Its worth the investment even if you only do it once - you'll know your position and can replicate it on subsequent bikes. Your training bike should be set up exactly the same - don't underestimate the importance of having the correct position!

paulM wrote:Start with the measurements and then think of the bike.
I would recomend Racescene in Barnsley...

Thanks Paul(+Chris), that's my conclusion. Not sure I'll go all the way to Barnsley but starting with the measurement has to be the best approach.
I actually got a reply from upgrade bikes re: Kinesis RC2:
"Doms reasoning is that on this frame it doesn’t make sense to keep making it hugely long on the biggest size as it would be counteracting the benefits of going for a compact frame, i.e acceleration and handling."
I think that probably means it's not for me, but a proper fitting would confirm.
At least all this planning keeps me entertained while the ice thaws!
cheers
tom

Tom,

The question I would ask if it was me was what are you racing? And what length are the races. Ali even with carbon stays is still very stiff which does not give you the most comfortable ride. However you do save a few grams in weight over carbon. Ideal for anything up to a 25 on nice smooth roads.

The longer the race, the more comfort is important. Also, from a size point of view if you are doing TT's on it and riding with tri bars then that changes the size on the bike.

Personally I always buy smaller, rather than large, knowing that if I'm going for longer riding I can make it less severe.

There are plenty of guides on the internet on how to measure yourself for the best bike fit, however what these don't include is flexibility. If you are not very flexible then the top tube needs to be shorter as you cannot get into position to use your body length/save drag. This also changes from year to year, Stacey started as not very flexible, but it has improved over the last 2 years so she now rides longer for racing.

One other thing to consider is how far down you can go and maintain enough power to make the efficencies worthwhile.

Like everything in life, it is always a trade off.

Brian