Clifton CC

Is anyone else finding this more and more frustrating? With Ricco there are now three caught, and now (according to the article below) we can no longer hail it as as victory of the testers over the cheats as the whole process seems to be woefully unsystematic. Grrr.

I am finding it increasingly difficult to justify my sport to the people I work with, and even worse, I'm finding it all the more difficult to care myself.

Anyway, spleen vented, back to work...


Anthony

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id= ... jul17news3

I'm beginning to feel that the future of the TdF should be redesigned more on the lines of a 'It's a knock-out'! With lottery-style prizes for correct guessing who will be collected by French Police for questioning.

Alternatively I might be thinking (with more time on my hands) to start an alternative TdFF (Tour de France Facile), roughly along Easy Riders's lines.
Will fit in better with the notion of spectacle, a caravane and advertising! Am keeping therest of emerging plans under wraps.

Oh, in case questions are asked, I did my Etape, as before, entirely on bread and water!

The reality in my view is that TdF is MONSTROUSLY big business, and big business crucially relies on doing what you think you can get away with. Gazprom wants to rule the global energy world, and be liked by the punters, so puts in THIRTY Million. See?

The headlines read "Tour Winning War Against Doping" - Well clearly this isn't true and just like last year we have a stage winner found positive.
I thought it a bit suspicious that a guy 5' nothing and about 9 stone could hold a minutes lead over a large chasing group for 30km! Whats even more suprising is that he's thick enough to think he can get away with it and not at least arouse suspicion. Same with the Barloworld guy nobodies heard of who is suddenly up with the leaders on the Hautacam stage. It wouldn't be pc to assume everyone doing a good ride is on stuff but they are taking the p$%s.
I particularly liked the response of the other Barloworld team when asked if they thought they should pull out of the tour? Not suprisingly they didn't - clearly not sharing any collective responsibility but no doubt happy to share the prize money and not ask too many questions.
Personally Anthony I have no problem justifying my sport to my workmates - not only because I'm fairly sure none of them will be watching, but because the sport &, more importantly, pastime of cycling I'm involved with is a million miles away from this cobblers. I an now preffering the reruns of Police Camera Action and the Professionals to the Tour on ITV4.
On a more positive note - another great win for Cavendish - as said before - someone you can trust to be honest.

As usual, I will be the desenting voice in favour of the the Tour De France and cycling teams in general.

Anyone who has read 'Breaking the Chain' or even 'Rough Ride' could see that in the past cycling was not only drug ridden, but it was totally excepted. The cycling authorities did not care and by not caring totally condoned the practice.

Now because doping is not systematic, individual guys are doing, rather than the teams, they are getting caught as they don't really have the skills to pull it off. Also as stated earlier they must be pretty stupid.

However the thing about cycling because of its history of drug use (bit like body building, where it is also excepted) is it really beats itself up. In the case of the blood doping a couple of years ago, there where 300 athletes on the guys books, only the cyclists where made public (about 10% of the total names) and chased through the courts. The footballing & running authorities, to mention but a couple totally ignored it (now where talking real money).

There will always be cheats, but at least cycling is taking a stand against it! Saying that it would be nice to know the 'Tour' winner on the day, rather than 2 years down the line!

A Atkin wrote:I am finding it increasingly difficult to justify my sport to the people I work with, and even worse, I'm finding it all the more difficult to care myself.

I can identify with this Anthony. About 10 years ago there were a handful of sporty types at work that were interested in the TdF on TV, so to make it more interesting I ran a TdF sweepstake. We all put in a couple of quid then drew a team each. We paid out of the kitty for stage wins and the final GC. At least we did for the first week or so. It was going great - the race was the first topic of conversation each morning. Then the Festina affair blew up. I spent a couple of days trying to defend the riders and the race but it all sounded lame - incidentally it was all the same defense that I've read on here over the last week or so - its such a hard race, all the other sports are as bad, its pressure from the sponsors blah-de-blah-de-blah.... It didn't help of course that the MD had drawn Festina.... Anyway, I gave up and gave everyone their money back.

So, 10 years on (that's a whole pro generation) what's changed? Well, back then the riders protested against the cheats being caught (rather than having to ride against cheats); I can't quite imagine that now.

Yesterday on Radio 5 they went to their TdF reporter to discuss the latest "Tour de Farce scandal" and asked just what it would take for the French to fall out of love with the event. After 5 mins discussion they went back to John Inverdale at the golf and he closed it off with the ominous line "well, we'll be staying with the race all the way to Paris, at least for this year."

Got a much more balanced perspective this morning compared to yesterday. Watching Cav coolly take his third stage is in no small part responsible. This coupled with a small selection of real ales last night has worked wonders on my mood!

Had an interesting 10 minutes this morning trying to explain how some one can finish dead last one day and storm to victory the next day, how cycling is a team sport, what roles the team members take and how a domestique spends all day shuttling to and from the team car to satisfy the team leaders slightest whim. It always amuses me how complicated professional cycling is, this is never more apparent than when talking to a non cyclist.

Needless to say my colleague left the conversation slightly glass eyed and even more confused than before!

Still, flattish stage today, dare I tempt fate...?

AA

In the case of the blood doping a couple of years ago, there where 300 athletes on the guys books, only the cyclists where made public (about 10% of the total names) and chased through the courts.

Its funny how each time this excuse is quoted the total number of cases increases and the proportion of cyclists decreases. This time last year it was 40% cyclists. Is the guy still recruiting new athletes or are we just more desperate to show our sport in a better light?

Perhaps its just because cycling is one of the few sports which recognises and tries to deal with a drug problem. I bet those atheletes aren't tested as much as cyclists are, so more of them can get away with cheating - if the sport turns a blind eye, then they dont get negative press.

The reason that the issue is highlighted is because when the Festina scandal broke the police believed there were links with organised crime. Since then cycling has been under the spotlight and in the case of the tour the French authorities have a proactive approach.
For professional sports people it's a job and a lifestyle somewhat like join the forces. They are in it for results not to take part. Rather like some business people some will skirt round the rules and others will break them in order to win or to simply get another contract. The big scandal in the states has been over food supplements. Some of the sports people knew they contained extras others though bought them because they really did seem to work and the men responsible made a lot of money and now face very long prison sentances. This won't stop the problem; especially as the reason substances are banned is because of longer term health risks, not something at the top of list for many sports people and whilst there are huge rewards for winning and nothing for nearly making it people will chance it.
Something I find far sadder is the children whose childhood is lost to training because they might make it. They truely show to what limits people will go to produce winners and are part of the attitude which
means it will be a long while before the drugs problem is solved.

I am boycotting the olympics. I am saddened that club members will be watching them. How ever much we may tut over cheating in reality we care nothing about how the race is put on only who wins.

Helen
Helen

Helen wrote:How ever much we may tut over cheating in reality we care nothing about how the race is put on only who wins.

Come again?!

Actually I care about how the races are put on and I'm sure most people do. However what you seem to be saying is that we should all boycott watching any sports, football, cricket, cycling, because lots of these people have worked hard from an early age and some of them might cheat?

Being someone who has coached a lot of children, mainly in triathlon and swimming, they wont be able to do the sport, to even break into the level where they might be offered the drugs, unless they truely love it.

My opinion for what it is worth!

Looks like this will be a long running discussion. But I think the issues are simple:

Society makes rules and laws and regulations in order for society to function in the way members of society have worked out suits them best, and has decided on appropriate penalties. If you are challenged and found breaking these then you face the consequent penalties.
Same goes for sports ruling bodies. Simple. If you take part you do it under their rules, and you should know these. Caught and you're out. Simple.
Essential for it to be kept simple.

When I watched the two Saunier guys cross the line at Hautacam, having worked together on the whole climb, I wanted this to be a hands together victory, being in the same team. It did not happen. Do I know why now? Now I feel cheated in having invested ANY of my emotion in those last few minutes! Knowing one (or both) had needled the latest banned go-faster stuff.

Just go on what you can get at your local organic grocery! Why spend time bringing children up to absolutely understanding that cheating is not on, and then making excuses for those who make careers and a whole lot of money out of it, and undermine the morality of the general public in the process? This is probably the worst aspect of all. We need heroes, always have had, stories of old, fables, the lot since time began.

Now heroes are tainted, or automatically assumed tainted.

justsweat wrote:However what you seem to be saying is that we should all boycott watching any sports, football, cricket, cycling, because lots of these people have worked hard from an early age and some of them might cheat?

I'd say we shouldn't bother watching any sport not because it's tainted, but because we should just get out there and do something instead. The world would be a better place if everyone that just watches sport got out there and played some.

Good post Willy. Well, apart from the organic bit

I agree that people should play sports, but I think we should watch it as well. Yes, if we were all to stop watching and decided to boycott every sport that ever had any drug scandal, then the prize money, sponshorship money, riders wages etc would all fall, creating less temptation to cheat.

However, I think this is entierly the wrong road to go down. Taken to its limits, boycotting professional cycling - or any sport - would lead to the end of cycling as a professional sport. The sponsors, not getting any publicity, would desert the teams, the money for the organisers, riders and teams would stop coming in without sponsors or fans, and the entire world of professional cycling would implode. Races would end, teams disband. Cycling would be reduced to an amateur interest. And who are the victims?

Not the ones who doped and made money from unfair wins, they can sit on their piles of money and live off that for the next 50 years, its the cleaner or lesser or younger riders who didn't earn as much money and who have just begun their careers who suddenly have no income, and have not had time to save up much. The past 5 years of their lives has been focused on becoming a pro cyclist, then the sport just disappears. The clean riders lose out when the dopers win. That is not what I want to see.

And the other losers? The amateur cyclists!!! Without the sport existing professionally, the interest in developing amateurs drops. There is no reason to promote cycling competitively, it simply becomes a means to keep fit or to travel. Younger amatuers, with the potential for greater cleaner success, are ignored. The potential for so much is lost, wasted, because of the loss of the sport.

I would love to see cycling become an entierly clean sport, and I despise those who cheat. But the way to combat this, on our part, is not to abandon the sport, but to promote the good parts. Try to help the cyclists coming into the sport see that they can make it in the world of cycling without the use of drugs eg. Mark Cavendish. If the newer riders coming in are cleaner than the older ones going out, then that would help the sport without it disintegrating.