Clifton CC

Well, the "Professional Cycling..." thread appears to be calming down. So, just to further fan the embers of debate:

USP/Disco never, as far as I'm aware, gave a positive upheld dope test in its 7 year existence. Of all the riders who left, off the top of my head, I can only think of Hincapie who has not since tested positive.

A few double negatives in there, but you get my drift.

Discuss.

None of the English lads have tested positive.

Jamie Burrow
Roger Hammond
Steve Cummings

Also don't think any of these have tested positive:
Armstrong
Gusev
Hoste
Danielson
Van Heeswijk
Devolder
Dean
Hoj
Popovych
Jonker
not 100% sure about Ekimov & Leipheimer

kevchenko wrote:Also don't think any of these have tested positive:
Armstrong
Gusev
Hoste
Danielson
Van Heeswijk
Devolder
Dean
Hoj
Popovych
Jonker
not 100% sure about Ekimov & Leipheimer

You've googled this haven't you!! I think a few of the above retired though.
How about the list that have? Tested +ve that is. I think you'll find its a long list, and getting longer. Which is my point really.

Are you half French by any chance?

I think your most probably right in what you are saying Rob, lets face it none of the US Postal boys have gone on to acheive any great success apart from Devolder since postals demise which I find strange because they seemed to be able to control the race so well for three weeks.

Looking on the bright side there have been fewer positives this year and the average speeds are alot lower?

Random explanation number 3: USPS/Disco was a phenomenally tight, clean team, driven by the fanatical discipline of one man and his technical support staff.

Unfortunately, the riders who left it were unable to reproduce the form they attained in that setup, and some were tempted to reach for illicit means to regain past glories...

Is that Hollywood on the phone?

Alternative: Many riders from the late 90s/early 00s would have been used to doping and not being caught. Now, the tests are improving so that they can be caught, but they find it hard to break old habits -- result: older riders never previously caught are found to have doped/be doping.

At the end of the day none of the riders tested positive during their time with Postal/Disco. However we all know things were going on as you can't dominate the tour for seven years on bread and water, especially when all major rivals of the time have since been outed. Fortunately things now seem normal with riders prone to good and bad days, and seemingly average teams don't suddenly have great seasons.

As for Jamie Burrow his career was very interesting. Going from being a good UK junior, to number one U23 in the world with more than double the UCI points of his nearest rival, to not even registering on the pro scene. At the time the U23 category was well known to be the most "assisted" in cycling owing to the promise of a pro contract after a good year, so you can draw your own conclusions. Although again he never tested positive.

Paul B - I've always drawn the opposite conclusion about Burrows. Once he became a pro he couldn't compete against people who were equally talented but who doped.

I once heard someone who worked with a pro team in the mid 90s say that they didn't want riders who doped as ameuters as if they need to dope to win at that level they'd never amount to anything as a pro.

That's all very good, but more interesting who is Kevchenko, a certain long standing member of this club who has until now been curiously absent from this forum?

About time too.

Azevedo never tested either, did he?

And as for Jamie Burrow - he finished 3rd in the granfondo Campagnolo in June, he's riding for the SelleItalia team.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/25072008/ ... icion.html

one more

Why the sad face Rob? surely we want teams to take a stance and sack people they catch so isn't an internal catch good news?

Sorry, hope I'm not 'fanning the flames' but to me each 'catch' means we're in a better position than the old days when many cheated but everyone turned a blind eye.

Michael, are you Christian Prudhomme in disguise?

My "sad" face was more to indicate that it wasn't a "I told you so" post.

"to me each 'catch' means we're in a better position than the old days when many cheated but everyone turned a blind eye." Hope you're right. We'll know better with hindsight. But I remember making the same arguments 10 years ago - that's a full Pro generation.

On the positive, with the TdF finishing today, I've enjoyed the race far more than I expected 3 weeks ago. I thought some of the camera work in the Alps was simply stunning!

You're right, I probably do suffer somewhat from excessive positivity!

For a bit of balance though I do have one complaint about the Tour. Well specifically ITV4. Good race coverage but surely they could have had a bit more vairiety in their adverts??! No, I don't want to save money with confused dot com, Wendy Richards as the human cannonball (?) and as for that gangly idiot from My Family leaving his missus for his "dream job" in Cornwall. What a pig!