Clifton CC

Without wishing to add more conflict to this thread I think the saying dates from long before the 17th c. In fact I think it was originally translated from some Chinese saying in about the year dot.

I'm sure you could interpret it how you like but my point was that if being good at anything was just about doing lots of it, the winners would be those that did most. I think modern understanding of 'performance' has taught us a lot about how the body works, and in cycling at least, you need a mixture of experience (doing lots) and understanding (the science bit) combined to suceed. This is easier to gain from learning off others than re-inventing the wheel every time.

Without wishing to mix metaphors in the same piece, I'm sure there's more than one way to skin a cat too.

Just following up Muzzy's comments above. Am sure the science going back and forth across the ether is all good stuff and academically very interesting, but really to be of significance there's some rather more basic stuff that most of us should be grappling with. Get the basics right, then the fourth squared power lactoephidrine law can be the finishing touch!

Early on in the thread somebody stated that all amateur athletes can devote 10 hours per week. A bold statement. In reality there are few of us that can put in that amount of time in on a regular basis. Some sharing of ideas about how we could all maximise our riding time would yield far greater benefits than the parallel universe occupied by much of the above thread!

PaulC wrote:In fact I think it was originally translated from some Chinese saying in about the year dot.

But Newton's side swipe is far more entertaining!

tomf wrote:Wasn't it Albert 'The Rocket' Einstein, disqualified from the Zurich-Geneva clasic in 1905 for exploiting relativistic effects to shorten the course, who said "If I've ridden faster than others, it is because I sucked the wheels of giants?"

No, I take it back, that is even more entertaining!! Top post

With reference to 'Brave New World' I always thought the point of scientific training was to sell more books and bits.

Helen

What am I going to be doing this year? Riding whenever I can in a totally unstrucuted way. If I get to ride some club runs, that'll be a bonus.

Last year, when I was fit and trained properly, did I enter any elite races? No. What's the point? I'd have been blown off in a couple of laps. I enjoyed what I did - TLIs, sportifs, hard group rides. Surely that's what matters.

What's wrong with wanting to get as fit as possible, in the time one has, but not wanting to trapise around the country to be given a kicking by a load of elites? I could go 'pro', train full time, and I'll still never be an elite/1st cat rider. That's just life.

Finally, if it's a conversation between four people, so what? Those four people are getting things out of it. That's what the club is about - people helping each other and learning from each other. If others don't understand, or don't see the value in it, then no-one forces you to read it or comment on it.

"Paul - that's snide and unworthy"

No it wasn't. It was a perfectly valid point, just like all the others on here.

You're right. Morning syndrome. Sorry Paul. I've removed the comment.

On good thing that Paul raised - would someone reading this wanting to know what to do me more confused now than at the start? Probably. Fortunately we have some really good web pages that Phil wrote:

http://www.cliftoncc.org/static.php?content=training

Rob wrote: Some sharing of ideas about how we could all maximise our riding time would yield far greater benefits than the parallel universe occupied by much of the above thread!

Are you offering time-management tips Rob? Always put your riding togs on at work so you can go out as soon as you get home instead of making a cup of tea and then deciding not to bother... Sell your children and buy a better bike Maybe the club could offer reciprocal babysitting; I train while you mind the kids, you train while I do.

Two weeks and six pages ago, Will started it all by saying "Abit of a silly question really..." and complaining about cold knackers. He went on to mention the fatal speed of 20mph, at which bait Phil (yes, it's *all your fault*) bit back with a bit of winter training advice ("slow down!").

Arthur then made the fair point that it's not all about steady work, especially when time is tight, while Brian took a different line (and made the 10 hours claim). After that it got a bit more esoteric, but that's not always a bad thing. Then PaulM dropped his Unambition bomb and here we all are.

So in fact the whole technical discussion came out of the very practical question you're interested in: how do we cope with the lack of time? For me it matters a lot: It's rare that I can get out more than once a week for >2hrs in winter. If I took the "long slow winter" received wisdom, or Brians 'stick at 70%' theory, too seriously, I might just jack it in. But because I have a little sport science knowledge and some basic fitness, I think I can maintain and build my form by adding a lot of commuting and shorter faster rides to the few proper steady sessions I can squeeze in. At least I believe I'm not going backwards, and in spring I should be able to up the miles and make more progress. [I should add I also really enjoy riding bikes, or I wouldn't be in this at all!]

I think both things matter. Time management and training efficiency are big factors for nearly everyone on this forum. As so often on t'internet discussions, there *seems* to be more disagreement than there really is...

I've also taken to heart Michael's comment a page or so back that we should 'keep it simple' with training advice. I was on a train for 2hrs last night and wrote out what I thought was the simplest sensible training program I could, keeping to <1 page and not relying on any fancy gear (not even a speedo...). It looks like weighing in at 10-11hours though . When I've tidied it up I will set it out for target practice - over on the Training forum.

And credit to Will for starting a thread which I think has brought out a whole lot of interesting practical, theoretical, political and organisational thoughts.

tom

MichaelCarter wrote:"Paul - that's snide and unworthy"

No it wasn't. It was a perfectly valid point, just like all the others on here.

I read it again, objectivity at max: Valid point, snide tone (disparaging?). Not that I'm bothered, it's a forum and that's what forums do.

OK, so I've been tempted back..

As someone who has a fair idea of physiology but little apparent natural ability the thing that I struggle with is knowing when I'm in danger of overdoing it. I find that when I get 'over-motivated' and push myself I just get fatigued and my performance declines. On the other hand if I want to improve then I need to push myself a bit more.....

You're not alone in this, Dr. I come at this with less knowledge of physiology and also having done no sports at all until taking up cycling about six years back. As a consequence I'm having to discover my limitations as I go along, and every now and then I completely screw it up - usually by panic over-training for an event (my stunning last place in the Clifton RR prologue and end-of-first-lap abandonment a couple of years back being a memorable example). Part of my reason for resorting to technology in training has been a wish to (a) quantify what I'm up to and (b) train harder but in a more targeted way. Since I've screwed up less lately it seems to have helped, and the target this winter is to push a lot harder, with the help of lots more information. Come April, I'll know if it's worked!

Others go about it in other ways tho....

I was on a train for 2hrs last night and wrote out what I thought was the simplest sensible training program I could

Training plan now posted - direct your attention and abuse here.

Dr Dave wrote:I find that when I get 'over-motivated' and push myself I just get fatigued and my performance declines. On the other hand if I want to improve then I need to push myself a bit more.....

You sound like the perfect candidate for Arthur's Power Cult. Have you considered the £1500 initiation rite?