Lightwater MTB Event 5th Nov

Arthur · Post by **Arthur** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:34 am

There's two hypothesis to be tested then

1) Women prefer the circuit events on the quieter roads, but won't be put off by doing the same as the men or

2) Women (in general) prefer to ride a slightly shorter route.

We're tried format 1 when Rob did it. How about putting on a circuit event with the same distances for all? Steph?

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:03 am

charlie · Post by **charlie** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:28 am

I'll ride the three peaks if someone provides the bike. I'm not doing a cross season though!

steph · Post by **steph** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:30 am

Rob wrote:Of the many, many TTs I entered over the years at standard distances, say 25 or 50 there would typically be 3-5% female contingent - a big shame as women can get a lot back from an endurance sport such as this. The switch to circuit events allows the n-1 approach and myself like many other promoters, with the best intentions, set up n-1 laps and achieved about 10% entry from the girlies.

Rob, are you saying that you've noticed more women enter circuit races than TTs? If it is, then maybe 10% would enter a circuit race regardless of whether there were n laps or n-1 laps? If they never get the opportunity to ride n laps how do we know?

If the world were up to me I'd say nix the n-1 laps for women, set up 2 different length races and let the individual (in any CATEGORY) decide which race they want to enter. Yes, there would be more awards or whatever but you could weight it towards the longer races to encourage people to go long. Bear in mind I haven't the foggiest idea about bike racing, have never entered one (and at this rate wondering if I ever will).

For the record I'd be happy to help organise a womens race next year. I'll be away for a month in the summer though.

Arthur · Post by **Arthur** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:01 am

Excellent! You'll need to decide sharpish what you want to do though since the deadline for most event bodies (CTT, TLI etc) has already gone. No idea about MTB stuff.

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Arthur · Post by **Arthur** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:02 am

Thinking about it - weren't Cycle Heaven keen on a women's event next year? Maybe get them to help promote and sponsor it?

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:41 am

I don't think you've missed the deadline for TLI

like my bike · Post by **like my bike** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:51 am

What a great string this is I hope something positive and tangible will come out of it. Although I think we need a new discussion to reflect the content.

My view is if we are going to organise a womens event we should start with something that has broad appeal any ideas?

PhilBixby · Post by **PhilBixby** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:50 pm

Well, we tried and failed with the Thursday evening TLI TT's, but maybe it's worth revisiting them next season and seeing if they can be "marketed" in such a way as to get a critical mass of women entrants. Alternatively what about the Boroughbridge Tuesday TLI road races? Distances are the same for all abilities, it just comes down to the handicap groups/timing. If Cliff Beldon was interested in including a "best female" category in addition to the current "best veteran" prize, perhaps CH would put up some prizes (if it didn't conflict with his existing sponsorship arrangements)?

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:32 pm

Don't want to speak for Steph, but I'm guessing she wouldn't be impressed with women going off in the front group - head start and all that.... Her hypothesis is "all in together". That right Steph?

PhilBixby · Post by **PhilBixby** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:41 pm

But vets go off in the first group (until/unless they start winning races) - I'm a victim of ageism and I didn't even know it! (and probably can't spell it either)

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:15 pm

And vets did n-1 laps in my TT as well!

steph · Post by **steph** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:12 pm

Rob wrote:... but I'm guessing she wouldn't be impressed with women going off in the front group - head start and all that.... Her hypothesis is "all in together".

Huh? You've lost me with the jargon.

I don't know if all in together would work best. You guys have much more experience with that. I guess if the vets, juniors, women all started at the same time then all three would have a job staying at the front. Is not getting a chance at the front unattractive to women racers? I have absolutely no idea. I'm thinking probably. But there again you can hardly put a seperate race on for 4 people can you? I'd be more attracted to ride in a time trial, but that's just my preference, having few (well, OK none) pack-riding skills and other reasons that make it more pfreferable.

There's a thought, riding in a pack and the basics of crit riding, for example, is something that the club might want to consider offering as a clinic. Who knows who might come out of the woodwork if they had a bit more confidence with skills. My LBS in the US offered a crit clinic to those thinking of racing and it was way oversubscribed.

Yes, this should probably be in a new thread.

Arthur · Post by **Arthur** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:40 pm

To explain a little - the TLI races are 'Australian Pursuits'. Riders are split into ability based groups and the slowest one group starts first, then the next after a couple of mins etc. In theory a woman could start with the fatest group - it's not based on sex but on speed, so if Nicole Cooke turned up, she'd go with the fast group.

PhilBixby · Post by **PhilBixby** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:57 pm

As Arthur says, in the TLI Boroughbridge races riders set off in groups (size depends on entries but is usually between six and a dozen in each) with gaps in between. Who goes in which group in the first race of the series is a bit of a guessing game based on race experience but after that it's based on how you did in the preceding race(s). The gaps between groups are then set so as to - in theory - have all the groups come together somewhere near the finish. So, if you're strong in relation to your group, then you work to help keep it clear of the chasing groups, or you sit in and wait to take your chances when the race comes together near the end, or you go for the daring breakaway, or... ...they basically give riders over a wide range of ability levels the chance to make a race of it. As a BCF 4th (ie lowest) cat racer AND a veteran, I have no shame about going off in one of the first couple of groups - that's what handicapping's there for.

Now Steph, that idea of the crit clinic:- take a look at the "Chaingang route" thread and my suggestion for splitting it - would that be something that would appeal to you? A way to get some fast bunch-riding skills and then a chance (with the Boroughbridge races) to put it into practice, all on alternate Tuesdays?