Lightwater MTB Event 5th Nov

steph · Post by **steph** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:26 am

I might enter this, looks like a lot of (muddy) fun. Any idea how long each lap is?

like my bike · Post by **like my bike** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:48 am

Each lap is about 5-6 miles

steph · Post by **steph** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:54 pm

On closer inspection and reflection, I won't be entering.

The womens race is two laps and the mens race is three. Hmn. I realise that this is a low-key event aiming to raise money for charity. However I've raised thousands of pounds for charity and all have been done on courses that are open to both men and women! Between you and me I'll let you know I've beaten quite a few men to the line in my time so I don't think I'd get too tired doing the three laps.

I'm coming from triathlon where I've never seen this pre-1890 rule applied, and I'm wondering whether most cycling events are classified like this? Can anyone help me out here?

I've written a polite enquiry to the organiser to bring it to their attention. BTW as this is a public forum I'm being very restrained in this post.

Arthur · Post by **Arthur** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:16 pm

Lots of time trials are N laps for senior men and M laps for vets, juniors and women where N > M.

Don't know about MTB events.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:46 pm

To be fair a very few TTs are n laps for men, n-1 for women.....

Including the event I organised for a couple of years.

Hey, I've finally got to use that "oops" emoticon!!

But seriously; women's distances from the top to the bottom of the sport are shorter and it doesn't stop Nicole Cook riding does it? Let it go Steph and get your entry in!

Arthur · Post by **Arthur** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:59 pm

I guess that's fair. The circuit events are mostly a lap shorter for women. Set distance events are obviously the same all round.

steph · Post by **steph** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:25 pm

I'm not going to let this go. What kind of message is the acceptance of a shorter race sending to women? That women can't (or don't want to) ride longer circuits? I understand that you are saying it's always been like that and just get on with it, but I'm looking at this with eyes fresh to the sport and it seems completely ridiculous.

I think it's what is termed an historical artifact. I'm going to do a bit of delving in cycling history to see why 'it's always been like that'. Things were 'always like that' in marathon (men only at this distance) until Katherine Switzer entered the Boston Marathon in 1967 as K. Switzer, pretending to be a man. The high profile of officials trying to trip her up on the course and remove her raised the profile of this issue and led to the AAU allowing women to run this distance starting in 1972. I'm not trying to be Katherine Switzer, but don't you think she had a point?

For the record, the organiser of this event (which I am using as an example) agreed that it was discriminatory and offered that I could race against the men in the open category. I don't want to race against men. I want to race against women. I won't be entering.

like my bike · Post by **like my bike** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:57 pm

The race distances reflect National Mountain bike series, women race one less lap than men http://ccgi.timelaps.force9.co.uk/htdoc ... -09-06.htm

I would guess its a ploy to encourage participation not discourage. Every event organiser wants bums on seats!

If you want cycle racing that has equal distances for men and women then Time Trials, Track racing, Road Racing and our own road is open to women.

Or you could try the www.3peakscyclocross.org.uk

Arthur · Post by **Arthur** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:04 pm

Road racing isn't a good example - women's events are nearly always shorter than then the mens. It's just there's so few women who do RR that the better female racers end up racing 3/4/W/J/V or something which isn't what most women want and is obviously rather harder since you've then competing against men.

Arthur · Post by **Arthur** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:06 pm

Oh, and track isn't the same distances either - 4km pursit v 3km for example. The women are doing both less distance and less time (~4mins for world class men v ~3.30 for world class women)

steph · Post by **steph** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:33 pm

Hmn. A quick peruse of the NORBA (US) and British Cycling website and I don't see a seperate mention of a women's category, just age. I think I'll call British cycling and see if there is actually a rule or guideline, or whether as AJ suggests it is a 'bums on seats' attempt by race directors. I think its fair to say that as a ploy to encourage more women into the sport its probably not working.

Like my bike - are you completely mad or are you suggesting that as a team Clifton should enter the three peaks cyclocross?

(check out that website). Anyone up for that?

Arthur · Post by **Arthur** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:04 pm

Various people have done the three peaks in the past. Scary stuff, not least on a cross bike with no suspension! I like my suspension - it compensates for my lack of skill nicely.

PhilBixby · Post by **PhilBixby** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:12 pm

Here, at photo 000809, is our very own like my bike, being "completely mad"...

http://www.sleepmonsters.co.uk/photosho ... photo_id=9

like my bike · Post by **like my bike** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:32 pm

And at photo number 060927083750

http://www.sleepmonsters.co.uk/photosho ... photo_id=9

I really like my bike when its going down hill 'fast'

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:09 am

Back to Steph's point about shorter women's races; I'll give you a race organisers' perspective. Of the many, many TTs I entered over the years at standard distances, say 25 or 50 there would typically be 3-5% female contingent - a big shame as women can get a lot back from an endurance sport such as this. The switch to circuit events allows the n-1 approach and myself like many other promoters, with the best intentions, set up n-1 laps and achieved about 10% entry from the girlies. Not an earth shattering turn-around, but better than nowt.

I admire your idealism Steph but out there it ain't that easy. Why don't you organise a race next year under the club umbrella and prove me and the establishment wrong?