Clifton CC

Arthur wrote:Phil - ah, the Joe Friel only slow miles in winter thing. I'm not a fan myself.

Despite my best efforts I still find that it's more the slow miles all year round with me!

Can someone tell me why someone thinks you should go slow in winter? If anything I'd want to go faster to warm myself up!, I know its stupid trying to go fast everywhere but I just cant get the hang of going slow, I mean on a straight bit of road, where I can go 20+mph, then I am doing what 17mph on it, and you know you can easily go 20mph or higher without getting too tired, then why go 17? If I have a great big tail wind and I'm doing 25mph when I can do 30mph why should I only do 25mph???

I really really really hate going 17mph and lower unless I cant do anything about it, its so awful, if I am in a group its fine, but not on my own, some people would probably tell me if I hate going slow I should not be cycling and should be learning to drive or something.

Did someone around here say one of the races, road race champs? They where averaging 34mph??? See I want to do that!!.

I sent a text message to AQA (All Questions Answered), I asked them if I can average 18mph over 50miles, am I above average? They replied, "yes, the average speed of a cyclist is 15mph, in the Tour de France the riders average 25mph", and thats like over hundreds of miles? But if there are races in this country where people can average 34mph then some day I must be able to average at least 25mph, I'd be happy if I could average 20mph with ease, I've always wondered how fast something is, I used to always ask my parents is that car faster than ours? My mum had to shut me up in the end by telling me the bigger the exhaust the faster it is lol!, so whilst some people like slow steady cruising, I seem to like fast steady speeding. Thats probaby a bad thing though tbh. Just looking ahead of you and you see a tree or something and it takes aaaaaages to get to you!!

Hmmm, that was quite a long annoying post, sorry!

Will

The key word is steady not slow. "Long steady distance" or LSD (and no this isn't a substitute for EPO!). It means riding at a moderate pace for long distances. There are all sorts of complicated ways of deciding what heartrate this equates to but I think if you can't hold a normal conversation with the person riding next to you you are riding too hard. The objective is to improve your endurance and provide a base on which to build more intensive workouts later. It also allows you to work on improving pedalling efficiency and technique. There's nothing wrong with the ocassional burn up but very few people can go fast all year so save it for the race season when it really matters.

At the moment I'm very happy with SSD, short steady distance. There's great pleasure to be had just enjoying time out on the road.

Will:- Basically, what Steve said. If you want to go fast, do a bit of reading about how racers train, since that's their job. There are plenty of alternative theories, but the widely-accepted approach is to build up a base of endurance (aerobic) fitness first, then add speed work. If you want to build up endurance, that means 3, 4hrs plus (longer than that for the pro's) and for that sort of distance, steady is good. Partly because if you try sprinting it, you'll be knackered well before distance, and partly because steady riding trains your body to be efficient in using your fuel. You know you were asking a while back about why you got exhausted on rides? Well...

Also, riding in winter stresses the body, there are lots more bugs around and everyone's sneezing all over you. If you ride until you're exhausted all the time, your immune system takes a hit, and you're more likely to end up ill.

If you really want to go fast, then work towards it in an organised way. Sometimes you have to go slow to go fast (Mal's just being coy about his secret training regime...). Incidentally those average speeds are bunch race speeds - as you've heard many times on here before, that's a lot different to trying it solo!

(Arthur:- I know I know - and shhhh, I'm keeping some threshold work up during winter - but the principle of base then intensity isn't unique to Friel)

I'm keeping some threshold work up during winte

Ah, but that's the nub of it isn't it. When I see people talking about meeting up for before/after work rides of 60-90 mins and talking about 'nice steady endurance pace', I wonder what training effect they hope to achieve.

Will - you should probably read a bit more about training. The idea is to do the long rides steady (and, repeat after me, *speed doesn't matter*. Only effort matters), but to mix in some shorter faster rides. Then as the race season comes round, mix in some above threshold stuff.

But, I repeat again, *speed doesn't matter*. The only thing that matter is how hard you are working. Doing 14mph into a headwind might be harder work than 25 mph with a tail wind. Ignore the speedo.

Will. Speed doesn't matter. The only thing that matter is how hard you are working.

(anyone else?)

MichaelCarter wrote:Will. Speed doesn't matter. The only thing that matter is how hard you are working.

(anyone else?)

I give it 80% most of the time apart from maybe one day and one day off.

I know speed does not matter, but its so fun going fast.

MichaelCarter wrote:Will. Speed doesn't matter. The only thing that matter is how hard you are working.

(anyone else?)

You're right of course but I suspect you're going to struggle to cement this concept in the desired destination........

"I know speed does not matter, but its so fun going fast"

Okay, Will, I'm a bit confused so here's a question:- Do you (a) want to get quicker so that you can experience the thrill of the sort of speeds you mentioned in races - by training in order to race/TT/etc to the limits of your ability or (b) want to ride at whatever speed you fancy, whenever you fancy, because that's fun? (I know there are other possible combinations here, but I'm keeping it simple because I'm a simple soul!)

PhilBixby wrote:"I know speed does not matter, but its so fun going fast"

Okay, Will, I'm a bit confused so here's a question:- Do you (a) want to get quicker so that you can experience the thrill of the sort of speeds you mentioned in races - by training in order to race/TT/etc to the limits of your ability or (b) want to ride at whatever speed you fancy, whenever you fancy, because that's fun? (I know there are other possible combinations here, but I'm keeping it simple because I'm a simple soul!)

Both?

* sound of gun going off *

PhilBixby wrote:* sound of gun going off *

?

I think people are confusing stuff here. As has already been stated 'speed does not matter' and effort level does. But what effort level and why. You need to decide what HR to ride at and why and then work at it.

I get my athletes to work at 70% of MHR for the first 100+ hours. Sometimes they break as they might be racing cross country or cyclocross, then they lose 8 hours off their base training. Why?

1. Blood volume increase, the higher you beat the more presure you put the new blood cells under and therefore the more that burst and don't reach maturity.

2. Tendons & ligaments have time to strengthen before the muscles put them under huge presure (muscles get stronger quicker)

3. Skills, if you are always racing/rushing you don't practice the skills you need. Most of my cyclists spend 3 months just on the small chain ring.

Some of you guys have a huge base of miles, that the younger or newer elements to sport don't have. Do a skills inventary and see what you are lacking, then plan your training.

I think the maxim, 'the bigger the base the higher the pyramid' really does work. However if your just happy riding your bike and results don't matter, then do what you want and enjoy it.

Brian

"I think the maxim, 'the bigger the base the higher the pyramid' really does work. However if your just happy riding your bike and results don't matter, then do what you want and enjoy it."

...which was the basis for my question...