Clifton CC

I think pro cyclists fall in to two camps - those cheating and those too gutless to protest about their fellow pro's who cheat. I'm not making any special efforts to tune in this year - infact I hardly know whos who or whos riding for who? I stopped buying cycling weekly a year or so back and don't get any other comics so don't follow the continental scene like I used to. I'm not getting withdrawel symptoms!

"I think pro cyclists fall in to two camps - those cheating and those too gutless to protest about their fellow pro's who cheat"

Paul, I apologise if this comes across as critical, I don't mean it to but I don't agree with the above.

If I was 20 years younger and a heck of a lot more talented I would have dreams of one day becoming a pro cyclist. Maybe somebody out there who is reading this IS 20 years younger than me and wants to be a pro. We should be encouraging people along that path, and encouraging them that you CAN do it cleanly.

A lot ot these youngsters could be impressionable and have their friends saying "why do you want to race your bike? in order to do well you've got to be a druggie". Let's encourage them to ignore such bulls**t!

(sorry, just something I'm passionate about!)

Michael

The results of the TdF so far do point to less doping so far - look at yesterdays stage: perfectly flat, easy run in to the finish, break should have been mopped up easily far a sprint, but instead 4 man break, 3 of which are not protour riders, survive the might of a Quickstep chase with over 2 minutes ahead!!! Also, the combined power of Rabobank and Saunier Duval was unable to bring Menchov and Ricco back into the field, so they finished around 40 seconds back again from the main peloton.

In my opinion, this points to cleaner riding, also it seems the sprinters teams may have to rethink tactics if they want their stages and the green jersey.

And whilst on the subject of attacking wins, many of the sprinters races have been won with attacks rather than sprints this year:

-Milan San Remo: Fabian Cancellara attacks on the Poggio (I think) and uses time trialling power to hold his advantage to the end.

-Het Volk: Philippe Gilbert attacks solo and Quickstep are unable to chase him down.

-Tour of Flanders: Stijn Devolder, Belgian climber, wins with a day long attack.

Without the extra power doping gives riders, it appears the peloton is having trouble chasing this season!

And its not just flat races -- Paris-Nice showed signs of being cleaner this year. After Robert Gesink took the yellow, all he had to do was ride powerfully in the last stages, and use his team to dominate, and the overall would be his. Trouble is, that power isn't there this year, and David Rebellin broke his lead on a minor climb, and Gesink cracked later on. That would never/rarely have happened if Gesink had used doping.

The point of all this: I am optimistic that racing is cleaning up, especially among the younger riders, and I think the results show it this year.

"The point of all this: I am optimistic that racing is cleaning up, especially among the younger riders, and I think the results show it this year."

I think you're right, and believe me I'm notoriously optimistic so I really hope it's the case. *BUT* I think there are still a few faces in the crowd who have associations with the scandals of the past, and pro cycling will have a tough job to be completely credible all the time they keep getting dramatic wins...

PhilBixby wrote:"The point of all this: I am optimistic that racing is cleaning up, especially among the younger riders, and I think the results show it this year."

I think you're right, and believe me I'm notoriously optimistic so I really hope it's the case. *BUT* I think there are still a few faces in the crowd who have associations with the scandals of the past, and pro cycling will have a tough job to be completely credible all the time they keep getting dramatic wins...

It's not helped when Liquigas tear up the agreement and sign Basso either.

I'll be reserving my optimism until this tour is finished, there's always some scandal that breaks, and I don't trust the Spaniards one bit!

Arthur M wrote:Without the extra power doping gives riders, it appears the peloton is having trouble chasing this season!

I like the hypothesis Arthur, but can you explain why its not the other way around -- With the extra power doping gives riders (the escapees), it appears the peloton is having trouble chasing this season!

Also I like your synopsis of the season - I now feel I'm back up to date!!

Rob wrote:

Dr Dave wrote: Rob there is a certain irony here

Indeed. So how do you feel about the pro racing, Dave. Does it still excite you?

Not sure excite is the word - more I suppose that I feel I have a duty to watch. I agree that the continued presence of riders who have been implicated (but innocent until proven guilty???) does make one slightly sceptical - I am definitely suspicious about Valverde - but the future of the sport depends on sponsors keeping faith, viewing figures being maintained and I kinda hope that as the clean-up progresses we could have a sport to fully believe in again.

The fact that other sports are pretending that doping isn't an issue for them makes me a little irritated though!

Rob wrote:can you explain why its not the other way around -- With the extra power doping gives riders (the escapees), it appears the peloton is having trouble chasing this season!

I think of it this way: A rider using drugs could, for example, gain 30% more power riding on their own than without drugs. If that same rider was in a small group of 5, say, because of just that ones faster speed, the other riders gain momentum too and benefit from it, even if they're not doping themselves, so the group power could perhaps go up 35%. So the larger the group, the greater benefit each persons power increase from doping is. Therefore, if that same rider was in a 180 strong peloton, it may be as if there is a much larger increase again, as if he has say a 70% increase. The numbers themselves are irrelevent, just there to demonstrate the point - the larger the group, the more benefit can be gained from each individual doper. Hence the breaks succeed more as the racing cleans up.

Looks like there is a contender for the first doper this Tour - anyone else sense Stefan Schumachers TT win today was...unexpected? And his eyes during the questions about doping - looked suspicious to me.

Arthur M wrote: Looks like there is a contender for the first doper this Tour - anyone else sense Stefan Schumachers TT win today was...unexpected? And his eyes during the questions about doping - looked suspicious to me.

That was very cringing to watch! I did have a grin on my face though! But you cant go getting suspicious about every rider who wins a race or stage. Look at the rider who won yesterday, I bet none of us have ever heard of him. Unless you're a total anorack! But why is Valverde suspicious? Cos he won the first stage with a cracking sprint? Everyone knows he can sprint especially on a tough climb. What if someone unexpected wins one of our TT's? Are they going to be suspected of taking speed or the like? We all have good days and bad days on the bike juat like the pros so cant we just accept these guys are rding the tour 'cos they're the best in the world?

I really think it's a shame that whenever you do well in pro cycling you're an automatic suspect. With much improved testing procedures surely it should be left to the testers to judge. Until then, we have to apply innocent until proven guilty otherwise what is the point?

Super human efforts? Greatest competition in history? Heights which have never been reached before? No, not this years TdF, but how come Rafael Nadal, Roger Federer and the entire Hull City squad aren't suspects?

Well said Nick B!

Arthur M wrote:I think of it this way: A rider using drugs could, for example, gain 30% more power riding on their own than without drugs. If that same rider was in a small group of 5, say, because of just that ones faster speed, the other riders gain momentum too and benefit from it, even if they're not doping themselves, so the group power could perhaps go up 35%. So the larger the group, the greater benefit each persons power increase from doping is. Therefore, if that same rider was in a 180 strong peloton, it may be as if there is a much larger increase again, as if he has say a 70% increase. The numbers themselves are irrelevent, just there to demonstrate the point - the larger the group, the more benefit can be gained from each individual doper. Hence the breaks succeed more as the racing cleans up.

Blimey. Think I need to sit in a darkened room for a while....

I'm not saying I suspect eveyone, but if you look down the list many of the other high placings are TT specialists or GC contenders - Millar, Cancellara, Evans, Menchov, Kirchen etc. And also the sudden nervousness during the interview. And two previous times when hes needed to explain himself after test results. Suppose that I should hope for the best though, benefit of the doubt etc.

Vaslverdes win is not particularly surprising - remember he is primarily a classics specialist, and with the rolling terrain and uphill finish, the profile could have come from any of the Ardennes classics.

At least the TdF are actively going after the dopers.

How often, in comparison, do you see people testing positive in the Giro or the Vuelta?

The performances from the CSF - Group Navigare in the hills of the Giro this year were outrageous.