[Training thread - was Its getting cold]

[Arthur]

Brian - just as well I'm not with you There's a place for lots of slow miles (and 70% MHR is slow) but for those of us who are time limited, I think there's more effective ways to train. I'll do tempo all year round, and I've got a lot faster since I started doing so. I use a powermeter to measure the effort very carefully.

I'm curious as to what benefit you'd expect a rider to get from mid-week rides if they are only at 70% MHR? Long steady rides are one thing (and a very good thing that everyone should do if possible) but a short ride at that level is just recovery surely?

[justsweat]

I'll tell you a story (bit of a Max Bygrave impression), Chris Boardman used to ride with one of the cycling groups on the Wirral. When they hit Frodsham Hill, Chris was always the last one up. Why because in his winter training he did the first 250 hours at 70%, long ride or short ride.

All these guys who gave him the kicking would strangley enough not be amywhere close come the race season. OK so Chris has natural ability on his side, but there are a lot of naturals out there, who don't develop there systems.

What you need to be a good rider, whatever you natural ability, is a high number of red blood cells, riding at above 70%, produces them, but a lot less of them survive to maturity. If this was not so important, do you think the riders would spend all that money on epo?

I'm not saying that the other systems don't need training, but that there is a logical order to it.

Shortage of time is always a problem, but most people can ride 10 hours a week, which gets your 100 hours out the way pretty quickly.

Brian

[willhub]

Every time I see something about speed and all that I always see HRM and talk about power meters.

Do I NEED a power meter if I am going to improve?

Sold a PS3 today and my dad gave me 50 quid, is that enough for a Power Meter or HRM or are they integrated?

It'll be a little cramped on my bike, on the right you have the Cateye speedo, this little guy's job is the Cadence, in the middle you have the big boy Garmin, his big job is speed, max, av and tell me where to go, then whats it going to be? On the left will I have another little guy who's job is to tell me if I am stressing my heart too much?

I went out for a ride today, I was trying to take it steady, but there was some fast bits, especially one sprint bit, must have been 15-25mph in about 3 seconds this big fluffy dog was starting to chase me, it nearly jumped me once , anyways I did 18 miles today, nice and steady, some sprint bits, average 18.5mph as out of the wind it really was pushing you, when I was going along at 15mph I really had to keep telling myself SPEED DOES NOT MATTER!!!!! to actually get myself to not start thrasihing myself.

I have another question.

Tomorrow I plan on doing Saturday ride from square, now I am pretty sure my performance INTO the wind and up hills has dropped for some odd reason, probably because of my lack of cycling in Manchester, I also feel tired after 60+ miles, that's on my own though, I went with Manchester wheelers, did 64miles with them, and did not feel too tired, but just wondering, should I go on Kevins ride or just the one I'd normally do (howards)?

[PhilBixby]

Will, you don't *need* anything, other than working out what kind of rides, when, will give you the improvements to your abilities that you want. Various people have suggested doing a bit of reading (on the net, or genuine papery books) and most sources will give you alternative ways to monitor what you're up to - "perceived effort", HR, or power. So it's not the kit that's important.

However, if you want a bit of focus for what you're up to - and I know you're a numbers man - then a HRM is good value and gives you useful information. You can get a cheap HRM (or even a free one - I've got an old one sitting here you can have for nowt) and add it to your crowded handlebars; I don't think Garmin's HR chest-strap works with the 605 but you could check this - it would be a tidier solution if it does. (There's some stuff on the club website about training with HR)

Power meters are still fairly hideously expensive (ie hundreds of squids, even on Ebay) and while they really are wonderful if you're a nerd (I am) and want to really target your training, they're not essential. The essential bit is the plan.

[justsweat]

And so say all of us!!

[willhub]

Will, you don't *need* anything, other than working out what kind of rides, when, will give you the improvements to your abilities that you want. Various people have suggested doing a bit of reading (on the net, or genuine papery books) and most sources will give you alternative ways to monitor what you're up to - "perceived effort", HR, or power. So it's not the kit that's important.

However, if you want a bit of focus for what you're up to - and I know you're a numbers man - then a HRM is good value and gives you useful information. You can get a cheap HRM (or even a free one - I've got an old one sitting here you can have for nowt) and add it to your crowded handlebars; I don't think Garmin's HR chest-strap works with the 605 but you could check this - it would be a tidier solution if it does. (There's some stuff on the club website about training with HR)

Power meters are still fairly hideously expensive (ie hundreds of squids, even on Ebay) and while they really are wonderful if you're a nerd (I am) and want to really target your training, they're not essential. The essential bit is the plan.

Freee HRM?? Whats it look like? Any spec info on net? Sounds good for free, I'd like it if possible thanks!!!, are you on the saturday ride tomoz?

[PhilBixby]

It's a Sigma Sport PC7. Pretty basic, but gives you current and average HR, and comes with chest strap, manual and bar mount. You might need to replace the batteries as they're a couple of years old now, but as far as I know it's still working fine.

*BUT!* You will only get any benefit from it if you do some reading, work out what HR numbers mean and how you can use them in a training plan, work out what your own HR "zones" are (there's info in the "Training with HR" bit on our website about how to do this) and then make a plan!

I won't be out on the Saturday ride as I'm up to my eyeballs in work but this means I'll be in my office (ie at home) pretty much all day - if you let me know what time you want to call you can pick it up. I'm only five minutes from the town centre.

[willhub]

Could you email me your address? I'll put it into the Garmin GPS to see if it gets me to where you are when I on my way to york tomorrow.

[PhilBixby]

Done.

[Dr Dave]

* sound of gun going off *

Or thud, thud, thud, thud as cranium interfaces solid boundary object

[MichaelCarter]

Will, my advice (for what it's worth). It's hard, if not impossible, for people on here to tell you what the right way for you to approach your training is. There are thousands of plans, and pros and cons for all.

We are all individual, one person might want to put in 20 hours a week nice and slow over the winter, another might only be able to do 3 hours and want to bust a gut. Some train by power, some by heartrate, some by neither. For you though I would simplify and focus on the following 3 points.

1, ENJOY YOUR RIDING. Don't get bogged down with anything, don't obsess over stats, and don't feel that anything anyone has advised is a rule set in stone you have to listen to. If you're on a nice bit of open road and you want to go full whack, do it, just not all the time. There's plenty of times in the year when people will be advising you to make your body hurt a lot of the time, for now though, just get the hours in and enjoy it.

2, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY. If you're knackered, rest, if you're feeling fresh, go out and ride. This summer there was a point when you were cycling so much you found yourself slowing down, got knackered easily and sounded fed up. Rest is the most important part of training.

3, BEER... if you can get through winter and you have cycled for more hours than you've drank pints of beer you're probably got yourself a head start on most of us!

Michael

[paulM]

Funny discussion this one - it started as a post about tights and turned into a sports science thesis!

Will - Forget about the computers the speed the sat nav..........
As everyone else has said - speed doesn't matter especially in November. You just need to put your bike, your clothes and your body on the scales to see why. Just concentrate on getting out regularly, staying healthy and keeping some level of fitness.
Now that you are over at Manchester you should milk this for all its worth. Manchester Whs was for a long time the top club in the country. Get out with them (or whoever have superceded them) as often as you can and get over to the velodrome - thats where you can get the best skills training.
Think long and hard now about what you want to do next year now. You have come along way already in a short time. If you want to go to the next level and into open competition get yourself out with some stronger riders and learn from them.

Brian - comparing a top Pro like Chris Boardman and some amateur training partners from the Wirral is not the best analogy I've ever seen.
It would be great to get 250 hours steady riding in, get fat over Christmas and still have time to get fit for my first race in March because I'm a pro and can spend all day training and more importantly resting.
I'm with his training partners however who probably stand in a shop all day or work on a building site. This time of year you do what you can when you can because next week you might be ill / busy / it might be snowing. They'd be sprinting up Frodsham hill whether Boardman was with them or not.
I can't ever remember having 10 hours a week regularly to train even when I was half decent?

[Rob]

This time of year you do what you can when you can because next week you might be ill / busy / it might be snowing.

Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. Print the above out and pin it to the wall.

[willhub]

I see what really matters in november... Money , my bike is costing me 60 quid this week, I got some new lights and now apparently the chain is worn and stretched so getting a new one, jockey wheels need re greasing too.

[rickshaw]

Going back to the original point of the thread.

Does the club's bib tights have extra layers to keep knees warm? and if not what alternatives do people recommend.