Topic Title

I currently have a resting heart rate of 52 bpm and during excessive exercise (time trial training) I can peak 200 bpm. I am 45 years old and cycle four times a week ( approx 80 to 120 miles a week). My average max heart rate is 185 bpm. Anything over this rate is usually just peaks and not usually sustained for long periods. I have been told that for my age, I should be about 175 .

Should I be concerned? Any other TT riders out there with a similar range?[/b]

Can't give chapter and verse, but the old '220-age' formula for max HR is very approximate (and not based on evidence I can find...)

Especially if you're on the small side, a higher max HR wouldn't be unusual. Doesn't seem too far out to me at least...
tom

Sean, the "220-age" formula is hopelessly unreliable, so anyone who tells you your HR should be anything "for your age" is talking c*****rs. However, there's some mixed messages in there - what's an "average max" HR? It sounds like your maxHR is around 200, and your lactate threshold HR is somewhere near 185 (if you can maintain this for "long periods"). All of which is fine, if that's what your numbers are.

Two suggestions:-

-Take a look at Tony Williams' Flamme Rouge website and read up a bit about HR and physiology (http://www.flammerouge.je/content/1_wwpp/physdesc.htm) and
- We've got a coaching evening tomorrow (details elsewhere on the discussion board) - come along!

Just to echo what Phil said. I'm 43 with a max HR when trained of 198 and resting of 40. When fit. When not fit the max is lower and the resting is higher. It all depends on level of training, genetics, big heart, small heart, muscle structure etc. The only way to get your max HR is to do a max HR test. I did mine with an ABCC coach with a thorough warm up and rampt test. Also good for getting your lactate tolerance with the deflection point. Mine came out then at 196, but since I did see one on a chain gang a couple of years ago of 198, hence the max. It does decrease with age and training.

Find a coach or coaching session. Good to get max HR, lactate tolerance and your HR zones to use for training purposes. But you do need time and a training plan to capitalize on it. I just ride my bike whenever I can because time is a limiting factor. Also check out Joe Friel. Happy max testing.

I don't use a heart rate monitor and I haven't taken my resting pulse since about 1996, but if anyone wants to know what lactate tolerance with deflection point means then get down to the coaching session....for a couple of quid you'd be daft not to.

Anyone interested in the coaching evening just post here if you intend to come, at the moment we have 3 members interested.

Questions to

andrewjohnston@britishcycling.org.uk

I currently have a resting heart rate of 52 bpm and during excessive exercise (time trial training) I can peak 200 bpm. I am 45 years old and cycle four times a week ( approx 80 to 120 miles a week). My average max heart rate is 185 bpm. Anything over this rate is usually just peaks and not usually sustained for long periods. I have been told that for my age, I should be about 175 .

Should I be concerned? Any other TT riders out there with a similar range?[/b]

Hi - Max HR as people have mentioned in previous posts is specific to each rider. It is different for each of us. I have seen Max HR from 169 to 220bpm. It is also not an indication of fitness. Coaches use it to estimate threshold and set training zones.

The only thing that is not clear in your post is whether you see this 200bpm in a max HR test. I would be surprised if you got anywhere near max HR in a time trial as you would be clearly working well over threshold and into the red.

If any rider is concerned about their heart then I would always recommend seeing their GP so that proper medical tests if appropriate can be carried out. After all coaches are not doctors or experts on cardiology.

Hope to see members tomorrow night when I will be free to answer any questions.

Mark Grange

Level 3 Road & Time Trial and Level 2 MTB - British Cycling Coach

Slightly different topic (sort of) but I did a VO2 max test (plus lactate tolerance etc) last week & found it massively beneficial, so I would echo the comments around doing proper controled tests for the accuracy. They also did stress that it is down to the individual and rates vary depending on fitnes, levels of training & intensity of training also (bearing in mind it is still only Jan - ok, Feb!)

Interestingly though my max heart rate was only 174.

I'm not a coach (and Mark is...) but I *think* I'm right in saying that there is little or no correlation between heart rate and all the useful numbers in cycling or other aerobic sports - it's down to the amount of oxygen you can take in, shift, and burn. So for a start the heart's only part of that equation, and the critical thing with the heart is volume, anyway.

My maxHR has plunged dramatically over the past few years (and my resting HR with it) suggesting that training has led to my heart shifting more blood with less beating. Plus of course there's the "getting old" thing...

Excellent session last night I thought. Everyone seemed to come away with some clear ideas about what they need to do to structure their training.

I must admit to now being thoroughly confused by the whole LT2 and max HR thing now though;

- Different advice surrounds how to calculate your Zones. Some use % of Max HR, Joe Friel pegs his to your Lactate Threshold (LT2) and suggests that max is irrelevant

- As my Max has always been quite high (>205bpm), I've used Joe Friel's system and got my tests done at YSJ in June 2010. I was OK fitness wise at the time although had a slight cold and my LT2 came out at 165. The commentary said "For trained athletes LT2 is normally between 75% and 95% of VO2 Max. Yours is at 82.6% which is good"

- Mark contradicted this last night saying that an LT2 of 165 with a Max of 205 is very bad and I must have been 'untrained'. It should be 10-15 bpm below HRMax. For me that would equate to 190bpm!!! I can't envisage doing all my aerobic stuff below 190 and anerobic above 190 - I'd be dead in a week.

Maybe I need to get myself re-tested and I am training too low but all this mumbo jumbo and contradiction does baffle those who just want to train correctly.

All very interesting, but I won't be going out buying a Turbo/Garmin/HRM/Power crank anytime some. For me the things that make a difference are diet, racecraft and what you when you're off the bike...and none of this was really discussed.
One of the great joys of cycling for me is the recovery ride to the cafe on a monday, a recovery ride on the turbo would be soul destroying for me.
If you want the gadgets and the science it was extremely useful and informative, but believe me you can still get good legs without all that.

I think you're being slightly harsh.

The brief Mark had was to talk about training and training plans. Nutrition and Racecraft are different areas and probably justify sessions all of their own.

Mark also covered the whole spectrum of methods and 'tools' from expensive toys through to just using perceived effort as your guide. He (refreshingly) didn't suggest the only way to progress was to spend loads on gadgets, merely explained the advantages of one method over another.

I'd agree with Paul - Mark wasn't at all prescriptive; there was no pressure to go down any one route other than the suggestion that making a plan of some sort might be a good idea. All he said about recovery rides was that they must be really gentle to work as recovery - we all go about it in different ways.

"..thoroughly confused by the whole LT2 and max HR thing now"

(I'm not a coach but...) ...since lactate threshold marks a fairly measurable point where the body changes the way it fuels effort, I'd reckon it's the one to work to. It's also easy to test:- stick bike on turbo, warm up, do a 20min TT effort and log the average for the final fifteen minutes.

However, unlike maxHR, it changes with training and also to some extent with the sort of training. Do a winter's worth of 2x20's and a spring worth of 5x4min intervals and your lactate threshold will be raised and your threshold HR will get closer to your maxHR. Shifting your lactate threshold upwards is generally good since it gives you "room" to spend more of your time on the bike without going into anaerobic territory which you can only maintain for shorter periods. But I'd guess it's possible to train for MTB stuff without having focused much on lactate threshold work - I don't know enough about MTB competition to know how much of an issue that'd be.

Thanks Phil.

Just sitting here in a lather having performed said test (whilst you were writing). Result was 174. I don't know what conclusion I draw from that other than, if I do nothing else, stick to 1 method and adjust my zones a bit.