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by PhilBixby Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:31 pm
I don't think I put a link to it in the articles, but there's lots of useful stuff on Tony Williams' excellent site at www.flammerouge.je which I've shamelessly plundered along with Joe Friel's book.

Tony's a serious supporter of the use of power meters, but there's plenty of useful stuff on training strategies (plus other techniques - for example his suggestions on warm-up routines helped me a lot this year) and his regular factsheets are always worth a read.

by Dr Dave Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:31 pm
Nice article Phil - I like the graphs. Can I ask which HRM you use?

by PhilBixby Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:54 pm
It's a Garmin Edge 305, which I thoroughly recommend. I know Nige Gos uses one too. They're not exactly bargain basement but you can get them for £200 inc VAT (with HR and cadence sensor) and with newer models due out this year they may be discounted.

Nige and I tend to use them for different reasons. I know Nige uses the "virtual training partner" function for TTing - you set a pace, or record a ride, and the Edge gives you a read-out of where you are in relation to this. For me, it's the analysis via PC, and the ability to relate output info (HR, speed etc) to a map of the ride - you can even view completed rides in Google Earth. Plus it's got a HUGE display so I can read it even without me specs! Of course all that's way more than necessary, but hey, who says training can't be fun?

by Arthur Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:04 pm
Or you could get a second hand powertap for ~£300 (which is what my second one cost on ebay) ....

by Dr Dave Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:35 pm
I believe Halfords are doing them for £140 atm.....

by PhilBixby Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:55 pm
That's a good price. In my experience the unit works better with the optional cadence sensor (it helps "fill in" missing info if the GPS signal is interupted) but you can get these separately and it'd still be cheaper than I paid.

by Dr Dave Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:36 pm
Cadence sensor as extra seems to be £29.99 (via Amazon) so total of £169.99 if you get the HRM from Halfords

Interestingly on Amazon you can get the bundle cheaper by buying the HRM and Cadence sensor together separately (£183.83) rather than by buying the bundle as one item (£187.99)!

by Rob Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:31 pm
2 posts about training, 5 posts about buying gadgets.... :roll: :wink:

Getting back to the training:

Really good web pages Phil.

You appear to have a similar HRmax to me Phil. You quote a range of 110-150 as a training zone. Its worth pointing out that 110 bpm is bloke on bike riding to work, no hands, lighting a fag.... whereas 150 bpm is struggling to talk and after 2 hours, while you're not exactly going to fall face first on to the door mat, you know you've been for a ride! You know what I mean Phil - there's riding in this zone and there's training in this zone.... Thoughts?

On a group training ride at the moment if the front pair are riding at the equiv of 150 bpm, those behind are on the equivalent of 110bpm.

by PhilBixby Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:32 pm
Hi Rob

You're right, that range feels very different at the upper and lower limits. Quoting from the article...

"114-140bpm is “Recovery” for, well, recovery rides and similar
141-153bpm is “Aerobic” for long rides to improve endurance and efficiency"

So yes, the lower end of it really does nothing in terms of training benefits, except on the day following a hard training session it would provide active recovery - ie it would have the same effect as sitting on the sofa but might encourage more blood flow to the legs and hence help the body's process of repair and recovery. 130-140 is still pretty easy once you're warmed up, but 3-4hrs at this pace and you'll know you've done a ride - especially if you're riding alone and hence are maintining this level of effort ALL the time. Once up into the 141-153 band (Zone 2), I have to work at maintaining it; if I don't concentrate I slip below it, but if I remind myself to keep working then it's a good steady level which creeps upwards on hills. So, going back to your point, yes - you can ride at 110-120 while smoking a fag, but (unless it's just a recovery ride) if you're training you really want to be up in Zone 2.

To be honest it's one reason why I do a lot of my training rides alone; in a group you'll be spending a fair bit of time cruising. For me that's certainly not because I'm quicker than the rest, it's just that (as you note) it's only really when you're on the front that you're working. As an example, last ride I did was just over 3hrs, HRave was 139, 1hr30min in Zone 1 (mainly 130-140bpm), 1hr10min in Zone 2. Legs knew they'd been out and about, though it's worth remembering that this kind of riding is still very much just about base fitness - efficient pedalling, training your body to avoid burning up glycogen stores, and getting used to sitting on a bike for hours. Proper suffering comes later!

Tony Williams (on his Flamme Rouge site) notes that his power meter showed that on club runs he was freewheeling for something like 20% of the time, and - if you've limited time for training - why waste it? However... ...group training rides, and the chaingang, have their uses too.

Would be interested to compare notes with you Rob on what you've got lined up training-wise with your return to hostilities this year. If we've similar HRmax there maybe some interesting comparisons (tho of course I'm nearly 10yrs older... :wink: )!

by Dr Dave Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:39 pm
2 posts about training, 5 posts about buying gadgets....


Thing is Rob - if you don't own a HRM you can't train using heart rate zones! Hence the need to enquire about 'gadgets'

Seriously though, I understand your point and accept that it's about the training and not the toys.

by Andy J Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:08 pm
Having read your post I checked out the Halfords website, reserved a garmin edge 305 online, popped down to Foss islands road and picked it up, £139 thats a saving of £50 on there instore price. I just need to source a cadence sensor now.

by Rob Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:56 am
Dr Dave wrote:Seriously though, I understand your point and accept that it's about the training and not the toys.


:lol: Don't take me too seriously Dave, it just makes me laugh. We certainly fit the stereotype of a bunch of middle aged men with too much disposable income. And well aware that spending money, even for a Yorkshireman (though I'm from Nottingham, god's own country) is less uncomfortable than training!

by Rob Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:20 am
PhilBixby wrote:Would be interested to compare notes with you Rob on what you've got lined up training-wise


Indeed - shall we make use of some of that 110bpm time on the next group ride? I'll definitely be there on Sunday.

In general terms, like you in a way, I have the great fortune to be able to get out in daylight in the week. So over a 7 day period for the next month or so I'm planning 2 x 3-4 hour rides and 2 x 1.5 hour rides. Recovery rides have never done much for my fitness and although its always great to be out I'm better off cracking on with the decorating.

I do own a HRM (bless me Muzzy for I have sinned). I don't use it all the time and when I do I try not to pay it too much attention out on the road. But I review the ride when I get home. Its a £5 one from Aldi, but even this can be set to record a target zone. So I set the zone to be 135-160 and it will tell me afterwards how much time I've spent below, in and above this zone. This is recorded in the training diary and is a simple record of how hard the ride has been. I suppose I'm aiming to get as much as I can inside the set zone. If the ride has been rubbish then I need to work out why. Tail winds, many stops, cold weather, tiredness, illness, laziness could all be a cause, usually the latter. But a review of the previous rides may allow me to put it down to tiredness and convince me to have a rest.

The set zone goes up to 160, but this is only really to catch the spikes in the data; in reality I know all too well what 150bpm feels like and on a level uninterupted road in benign weather I can ride on it pretty accurately without looking at a HRM.

I agree that time spent at very high HR is of little importance at this time of year, but out on the road things like hills and the general need to have some fun mean that some time is spent up there.

When we get to intervals I plan to try this just above and just below threshold millarky - never tried that before, although I often did a session of 2-3 minute intervals with just 1 min recovery.

Right, where's my bike?

R

by Arthur Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:10 am
When we get to intervals I plan to try this just above and just below threshold millarky - never tried that before, although I often did a session of 2-3 minute intervals with just 1 min recovery.


What are you planning on training? A 2-3 min interval will stress vo2 max while threshold intervals would normally be rather longer (2 x 20 min is popular at the mo), so they target different things.

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