Topic Title

Yup, always one step at a time...

..all of the current routes allow for doing a lap (or most of one) of one of the local circuits and/or some faster work on fairly straightforward roads on the run-in. Hopefully everyone's also doing stuff on their own at a higher intensity which is preparation for levels of effort you'll get in races - at the very least threshold intervals, hopefully above-threshold work too. If we start focussing on fast laps in four weeks time, by then hopefully everyone's legs and lungs will be ready for it. Even doing laps should still be about working as a group - measuring your pace, riding through smoothly, letting the next rider come through, etc.

You should all have a bit of paper in front of you (or a mental equivalent) which you can look at and say "yup, that'll get me there, by then". Go on, tell me you have. Please!

Ha ha - I wouldnt go as far as describe anyone as lazy - I thought the ride I was on was tough enough and I was certainly struggling on the stairs for the rest of the day! But I'm not sure I should be able to rock up on me heavy bike, mix it up a bit and win the sprint at the end - I've done no proper training? I think Phil is right but personally I'm not that great with the science but really good with the marginal gains. Surely the training ride has moved on from getting you from surviving in the bunch to now getting in the break and having the ability/cunning to stay there? For me you would be better dropping the Southern route and continuing with the other three, ride these at the same intensity for the first two hours and then line out for the last hour or so. So the East & North routes could both finish on the 10 circuit and the West a lap of Bish Wood and then just keep it going. When I say line out - I mean one line! This is how breaks stay away and thats the marginal gain - working efficiently and learning to stay out of the wind. Two lines just means you are on the front for twice as long. My qualification for saying all this is having "survived" in plenty of winning breaks and even been the winner in a winning break a time or two.

Good discussion as always. I'd vote for dropping the Southern route as well and just focussing on the other 3 at this time. I'd also agree an upping of the pace in the last hour should be a focus. However this shouldn't be at the expense of the group element. Where I think we also need more focus is the technical aspects of group riding. Paul has always been a strong advocate of the pace line (front rider does a short turn and swings off) rather than the echelon (2 lines constantly rotating). For some reason we always seem to ride the latter on a Saturday. We need to do both but with an increasing focus on riding smoothly and as a group in a pace line during that last hour. But hey I'm still new to this. Happy to follow where more experienced heads (legs!) lead.

John

I'm generally with John and Muzzy here in terms of the last hour being a bit harder (it might not be quicker if its headwind and were tired but we should be trying harder!). In terms of technicals you need to be able to do all variations of through and off I think. In a small group longer, steadier turns work otherwise you get no rest. In a large group come through on the sheltered side (ie easier) so that you can maintain what the guy just rolling off did. Youll be going quicker and hence the turns are likely shorter. If you creep through having done a load of riding in the wind, guess what, you don't go so fast! There are also times when the wind dictates that we rotate the opposite way to normal and we hardly ever do that.

This is important stuff if you have ambitions in any RR! I am probably repeating things people have already said ...but in a slightly different way You can't expect to tick every box for all your training needs on a Sat. morning but we should be making the most of the fact that, for all of us, it's the one chance of the week we get to ride in a group...I think that on the training ride we are all well versed in operating 2 pace lines. This works well in a big group and has the added training benefit of giving equal turns for everyone at the front (2 mins or so) then swinging across to the left. We generally ignore the way the wind is blowing to keep it simple. But we are approaching the time of year when we are thinking about actually racing. Sticking my neck out here but I think that when you get down to 6,7 or even 8 riders we should be thinking about 1 line. If we’re doing that on a training ride...we do that bit the last hour when things speed up at least until we start doing the laps of Bish when we do it from the off. Whether it’s 1 or 2 pace lines depends on size of group and the 2 “systems” (for want of a better word!) are quite distinct. In the 1 line - when you have done your turn - you flick you elbow on the side which you want the next guy to come thru on and move into the wind and - the key bit -. drop back pretty quickly to the back (This can work with riders of different abilities since you can do a slightly longer turn at the front if you are strong or a bit less if you aren’t). Because you are going back on the windy side you are giving the other guys some shelter. The hard part, certainly for me (I’m a fairly reserved unassuming guy!) is getting everyone else to understand what you want them to do and getting them to do it! We’re not the only club who need to get this right. I have got into few breaks (that haven’t got anywhere near staying away I hasten to add!) when it’s a smallish group and you have 2 pace lines...Everyone gets knackered very quickly because we don’t know each others abilities and guys are coming thru to quickly, etc, etc,... then sometimes it all gets a bit Keystone cops...Some guys are trying to do one pace line but then other guys are doing 2 pace lines...Total chaos..And what do you know neither of this type of break makes it the finish. Getting round in the bunch is great but getting in breaks and staying there is what we all want to do and is the proper fun stuff about road racing so we need to work on this.

I stand to be corrected on any of the above by any of the more experienced racers in the club

I agree with dropping the South route now. I actually think it is a tough route mainly because it flat and exposed...no respite...you are always pedalling ... but the other routes do have some lumps in them which break up the rhythm which is exactly what you get in races.

I like the south route... mainly because you don't get much respite, and there are plenty of flat road races out there (thank goodness for me)!

But that said I agree with everything mentioned above, pacelines are better once the effort starts heading up, I was doen the uni track last night and we were doing pacelines, worked well as you can do as much or as little as you want before pulling over and dropping to the back.

Something that you dont get on the training ride and I am not sure if anyone is interested in is both sprint practice and chasing breaks (those hard efforts as someone goes off the front), you can only really do those in a group... maybe food for thought?

Either way I am pretty easy as I don't make it out each weekend!

This is good stuff. I was trying not to go into to much detail on my previous post but it goes without saying if only five riders are working one line works best with the lead rider in the wind dropping straight to the back after 20 or 30 secs. Where it falls apart is when they take too long to drop back and keep pedalling and then the next rider just does a short turn and straight away your in 2 lines! But I would agree if you still have a dozen who are all working then two lines is fine. It takes some discipline and communication and awareness of who is where to get this right! For practice it would be worth rotating two lines early in the ride so the riders going to the front are sheltered from the wind rather than just going through on the right. This just keeps everyone on their toes but the ride will be a mile an hour faster with more riders contributing and getting the benefit! I'm convinced riding in a break is becoming a lost art possibly because circuits dont seem to be as hard and the whole bunch just chases the break down straight away rather than individuals jumping across. But believe me, being in the break is just the best place to be and when it works well it feels easier than being in the bunch wasting energy

Yep - not much to add to the above really, just to say riding in one line seems so much easier. Probably because you're not killing yourself to get round the guy on the front. The one thing that can catch people (me!) out is slowing too much when you pull off and then missing the last wheel.

We are pretty bad at changing with the wind. There was quite a long stretch on Sat when we were getting whacked from the right by the wind but kept coming through on that side.

I hate the southern route but probably feel that it's doing me some good. I generally go ok on the hills but flat, windy routes kill me. I suppose there's enough flat on the other routes though.

Just a thought, but what about alternating laps of Bishopwood with laps of Saxton (on different weeks)? Maybe after a few weeks of upping the pace.

I'll be missing the next few weeks due to other commitments. When I come back no doubt they'll be shaven legs and summer bikes on show. I'll probably get out on some Sundays so will post up here if so. Does the Cycleworks ride still go out on Sundays?

Cheers

Martin

Pretty much agree with Martin in regards to the 1 line, it does seem a logical and efficient way of making some good progress.

I agree with Phil's idea of alternating laps of Bishopwood with Sheriff/Stillington? The latter has some elevation that does give people a decent work-out on a few inclines. Not all the races we do are flat and training on these routes must be the only way of getting better & quicker.

Andy