Topic Title

Forecast for Saturday at the moment is chilly but neither arctic nor submerged, so let's do the southerly route. If we can't keep a couple of groups working together properly over that one then someone needs shooting. It's November, folks, keep it steady! There will be two groups to cope with the range of levels of ability we now have out on these rides.

Route is:- York - wiggly route out to Elvington Lane - Elvington - right prior to Melbourne - Howden - Wressle - Breighton - Bubwith - North Duffield - Skipwith - Thorganby - Wheldrake - Escrick - Stillingfleet - York.

9am in the square!

Should be out

As usual most people reckoned they were 2nd/3rd cat or equivalent, leaving a group of five of us to set off in their wake. A cracking ride; nice short turns on the front, tidy group riding, no issues/p*******s/ misbehaviour and plenty of chat except when on the front. 18.4mph out of town and 188W (sorry Muzzy - figures mentioned purely to illustrate that it was a steady winter pace) and everyone still together at the end. Many thanks to all.

Exactly right Phil... Too many in the first group. It's been said before, but 6 or 8 seems to be the right size of group. We just don't seem very good at sorting that out when we're in the square for some reason. Maybe we should sub-divide the first group into:
1) Those that don't train many hours a week and want to 'push on' a bit more
2) those that feel they want to be in the 2nd / 3rd group, but train several hours a week and don't want to 'push on' so much at this time of year

Any other ideas?

2) those that feel they want to be in the 2nd / 3rd group, but train several hours a week and don't want to 'push on' so much at this time of year

Any other ideas?

That's exactly why I set off in the second group today.

You can't really do any more than Phil did today and give people the option, and then everyone can make their own decisions. If part way round there are too many people in that group then someone just needs to make themselves heard at the pee stop and get half the group to hang back for a few mins, or just split it before you all leave the square... Simple.

Good ride today in group two in some great company, thanks folks. See you all in December or January.

I "want" to be in the 1st group and probably do 12-15 hrs a week, but I know my limitations, last week there was only 1 group so no choice this week however, was a cracking ride with only 5 of us, everyone rode for the group, and I for one thoroughly enjoyed it Thanks All.

Seeing the big 1st group head out, I thought I should be heading out with those guys! 3.5 hours later after limping home with zero power left in my legs I was glad I decided against it.

Thanks for the ride guys. Hopefully I can drag myself out of my pit a few more times this winter

First training ride of the 'new' year for me.

I shuffled into the 2/3rds group expecting a brisk but steady ride. I would say that it was a little quicker than that.

This was quite a tough ride for me. The sort of thing that I'd expect in Spring time. I don't think it was a case of someone else's 'steady' being my 'eyeballs out' - I doubt anyone on the ride could call it 'steady'. I came off the back after 50 miles and at that point I think there were 4 left!

The issue we've got is that not everyone subscribes to the traditional periodisation theory of training. Guys in this group are keen to go quite hard all year round. Personally, I don't have an issue with this - people can have different ideas; however, anyone joining the group needs to know this really.

In contrast to Matt's post above; I quickly scanned the group waiting at the square as my large group pulled away and thought - I should be with those guys. However, I made my choice to go off with the faster group (that's what it is despite what diplomatic term we may give it) and therefore I don't think that I can complain because the group was too fast for me.

I know the idea of this kind of ride will upset many people and personally I'll be in the other group next week (probably!) but I think the rides can co-exist as long as people know what they are letting themselves in for.

It'd be good to see feedback from anyone else on the ride.

Cheers

Martin

Mart, I was not out but I am not too shy as to not comment!!

I think you are right, my view of training ride was always that you knew that you might get dropped and I think I reference that in my previous comments.

Yes this time of year should be "easier" but if you have a strong group of faster guys the pace is, inevitably, going to be faster.

When I first started coming to the ride I was under no illusions, I knew I was in for a pasting, and that in reality I would not survive with the group but I knew that and accepted it.

I always thought the reason we do 4 routes was so that people knew then and could make their own way home, certainly that's what I did.

I guess while everyone should know where they are in terms of ability its all too easy to get out of your depth, if the "faster" group are averaging 19mph on the flat I am not sure how they can be expected to wait for someone who is struggling to do this, where is the limit? Is it fair to slow the ride down when the majority are capable of doing this speed? I am not sure.

Ultimately you makes your choice you takes your chance, but don't expect to make it back with the group, I don't, that way you won't be disappointed.

Feeling provocative again, sorry.

Cheers

Sharpy

"I came off the back after 50 miles and at that point I think there were 4 left!" (from about a dozen or so?)

....sorry, I should elaborate.

1. A number of people picked the wrong group on Saturday. There seems to be a bit of "my w****'s bigger than your w****" goes on every week; the "steady" group is not the Wednesday Wheelers, it's an 18mph+ steady group ride for those who want to be reasonably competitive in 3rd/4th races or equivalent in four months' time. The "brisker" group is for those who have significantly higher ability and are 2nd cat or above or aspiring to be - very definitely 2nds/3rds.

2. The "brisker" ride is not for those who want a harder ride, it's for those who want a steady ride but whose "steady" is faster than my "steady". If you want a harder ride and you're not prepared to ride as part of a group (ie check over your shoulder and adjust pace as required) and consider it "job done" if you arrive back in York with only two riders for company, then please kindly form a group of your own and head off before the rest.

3. The four routes are there so people can check the route and, yes, get back okay if dropped but it's mainly so the group can work as a group without any one person having to shout instructions at every junction. I'll say it again:- Everyone needs to take responsibility. If you see the group getting stretched out do you bury yourself to keep with the front blokes (and get dropped half an hour later) or sit up and suggest people knock one off to keep together? In November? Come on!

I've just done my weekly 2x20's so - contrary to what you might think from the above - I'm feeling a Zen-like calm. Plus I really enjoyed Saturday's "steady" ride. I bet Muzzy and Darren enjoyed whatever riding they got up to too, and they'll be ready come April. C'mon everyone, think a bit!

From another post "62 miles at 19.2 mph for me door to door" I think we re all on the wrong ride

From Tejvan Pettinger's blog (he won last year's Ilkley 25 in just under 56mins). His average speeds...

•Commute into town, including stopping times at traffic lights – 12-16 km/h
•Commute into town (slow) – 16-20 km/h
•Commute into town (fast) – 20-28 km/h
•Club run – 24-27 km/h – we used to average a pretty constant 24-27 km/h for long club rides in Yorkshire
•Training ride on winter training bike – 24-27 km/h - 15-17mph
•Training ride in summer – 28 – 30 km/h
•Threshold training ride 32-33 km/h
•Threshold training ride on time trial bike 34-37 km/h
•Hilly time trial on road bike – 38 km/h
•Hilly time trial on Time Trial Bike – 40 km/h
•Flat time trial TT bike, no traffic – 45-46 km/h
•Fastest time trial on TT bike (fast course, + traffic)- 49km/h
•Fastest downhill – 85 km/h

....

A pan flat training ride in the middle of November gets smashed to bits. I do enjoy reading this forum

From Tejvan Pettinger's blog (he won last year's Ilkley 25 in just under 56mins)

Don't forget the national hillclimb!