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Oh dear - before anyway says that there are more important thing happening in the world, etc. I’m going to have to drag this out a bit longer. Sorry you got left Jess, I think we all need to be mindful on p***stops. As the self-appointed ride leader or whatever you call it I suggested the route and decision was made to keep one group in the Square. There were about 14 of us I think. In hindsight probably would have been better to have 2 groups. There was concerted effort – I think - to keep it steady I think but one person’s steady is another person’s “b****y hard”, etc. On the Buttercrambe road there were a couple off the back so I dropped behind a little hoping to help them get back on. I then came across Andy who had an issue with his mudguard. After he had sorted this we two-upped for bit, then joined by Damien who had come back to help. On the last climb to Malton. Rich was just off the back so I waited for him but we were on the wrong side of the railway crossing. We then two-upped (all good training this!) for a while. Relieved to see the group appearing to set forth after a well documented comfort break. Have to confess that I did not do a head count at that point, just relieved to get back on! I actually thought that Jess and Will had taken a different route and made that remark to some one who wondered where they were. Anyway, we cracked on. Further mudguard mishap for someone led to a brief stop until that was sorted. After Terrington I had a front-wheel malfunction which I thought was terminal for a few minutes (wheel just kept locking for whatever reason) but managed to sort something out to enable me to get back home. (This all sounds a bit defensive but I just felt compelled to contribute something to this discussion. I have been on a lot of the training rides over the last 3 years and have seen tons of examples when folk have been friendly/supportive and mindful of one another and I think that – in spite of what happened on Saturday - there was still a lot of this on display, on Saturday, as well). Group had long disappeared by then... The whole ride was a bit start/stop really but again apologies Jess...that shouldn’t happen. We just need to have an awareness of everyone particularly when we stop.
As one of the people who race I am sorry to hear that this ride is ‘getting a reputation’. Personally, I have no interest in trying to make these rides hard at the moment – It’s only November! So yeah...more ‘mindfulness/awareness’ and 2 groups work best unless there is such a small number in the Square that make it daft to split it.
You know it’s Autumn when the Training ride thread starts running to 3 pages or more!

To elaborate further on the point Cam makes about goodwill, I want to say how much I appreciated his personal support with the mechanical difficulties I experienced.

Many thanks again Cam.

..and as a bit of further support for Cam, the poor fella stuck his hand up, chose the route, set out the do's and don'ts, and did his best on the day. It takes everyone taking a bit of responsibility for it to work well.

Page 2 of this post certainly reads better than page 1! It must be the 1st anniversary of the last time this happened? seriously though guys its only early November and racing is months away yet - surely the objective at the moment is just to get round without losing anybody and everyone should take some responsibility to ensure this happens and not leave the thinking to whoever puts their hand up. Lets face it, even the pros aren't really training at the moment. Why not rename the ride the nine o'clock non- stop ride until the new year - it might just take the sting out of it? And leave your gadgets at home and not talk about wattages and average speeds and what nots for a few weeks. The training rides I've done in the past year have all been great and there has been road racing success as a result of it but reading stuff like this reflects badly on the club as a whole.

I guess my comments were a provocation as much as anything, anyone who puts there hand up to "lead" a ride is not responsible for it, they are just there to guide the group.

It is a shame that at this time of year, when we should be just pottering about and getting some miles in while benefiting from good group riding we seem to struggle to make it work.

I ignore the tech, other that HR as I figure that if I can keep it nice and low then I am getting what I want out of the ride and if mine is getting high then damn sure others are as well.

South route this week, my plan is to ride out and meet again on route, lets keep talking about the pace when we are out.

For me if I was struggling then I would not expect the group to ride at my pace though, I would just wave them off and do my own thing there is a balance to be sought, no what you can do and if that means not making it round aim to get further next time, thats all I did, I used to get dropped all the time at the start.

May be a bit of a contradiction but that is my view.

But there is no excuse for leaving someone with their pants down...

I always used to think the training rides were too fast in November and too slow in March. Too many racers going into the winter without a re-set, get fat and slow down for now

At the risk of extending this towards three pages, I'll add my two-penn'uth since I'll be out on these pretty much every week and will doubtless continue to use words like "Training" and "Wattage"...

These rides are very definitely "training rides" as far as I'm concerned; they're different to the other Saturday rides which have evolved from the "H Rides"; nobody should be caning anyone up the hills and everyone should know the route so everyone can take responsibility for the group functioning well. I pretty much take a month off at season's end and this part of the year is very much part of Darren's "re-set" for me - all my numbers are well down on peak from the preceding year, and that's fine.

AND/BUT...

Training at this time of year is largely about endurance miles - base fitness. Given two groups to cope with what Cam neatly states as "one person’s steady is another person’s “b****y hard" nobody should be on their limit and nobody should be getting dropped. I keep saying it - if your training plan involves harder stuff at this time of year, do it somewhere/sometime else, and use the Saturday ride for what it's best at - a brisk, steady, three hour group ride which will give you good base miles and group riding skills. Plus a helping hand if you get a mechanical, and a bit o' chat.

Hope that all makes sense.