Topic Title

Totally agree with Darren and well done Damien for animating a dull wander, beyond Boroughbridge - what happened was more unstructured than usual and better for it.....as it was reflective of real road race behaviour....the key point is to be alive to it and have the capacity to get across any gap that emerges. Enjoy it

Andy

While I dont disagree with anything that has been said and despite fear of over complicating a simple process I feel there is a lack of clarity, in one post we have people saying the last 10 was supposed to be like the a168 and in another that it is more like racing.

Now if it is the latter and it is the responsibility of the group to stick on the with the fastest rider/s then that is all good, if I am not strong enough then I go out the back and ride back to York on my own or with others in a similar position.

However if it is the former then there should be few gaps like going up the a168.

I know when I first did training ride the last 10 was always a bit of a free for all, the pace went up and you either stuck the pace or you didnt, by the time we got back to York the group had split into a number of smaller groups.

Sorry for dragging this out, I enjoyed the last 10 miles, dont get me wrong but I think that some more clarity and peoples thoughts would be good for me.

Cheers

Sharpy (aka Pain in the arse)

If someone decides they want to try split the group or jump off the front on the way back to York you can either go with it immediately if you're on the ball, bridge the gap later, or just let them go and work together as a group to bring it back.
If you haven't got the strength to bridge a gap in a race it's something you should work on. I used to do some great intervals for this. When you've commited to bridgeing you'd better get across it quick or you'll be stuck in no mans land looking a bit silly.... I suspect Damien will be a marked man next week

I'm proper looking forward to it now....

I'm going to dust off the turbo.

I think that if Darren, Damien and Andy are advocating this sort of thing on a training ride it must be a good thing as they must have about 80 years of racing experience between them! It would represent a bit of a departure from what people have been used to on these rides though. I can understand some people’s confusion after Saturday. In some of the first races I did I had no idea what was going on. It can take several failed attempts before a break (if it ever happens!) actually gets established. Spontaneous attacking near the end does make the ride more interesting/fun and race like. I think on Saturday we just had the one attack (from Damien)…From what I could see no-one tried to get away after that we just didn’t get organised…One of those occasions when you need someone who knows what they’re doing and has a big gob! As people say we do a fair amount of tidy thru and off which is done at a higher speed when the Tuesday chain gang starts at end of March but we don’t do any of this messy stuff which seems to precipitate the forming of a break in races. If everyone wants the rides to be like this (i.e. spontaneous attacking with 10miles to go) then it goes without saying that it is even more important to watch out for one another: holding your line, looking over your shoulder before you pull out, not doing daft things like taking the chance to attack if a horse comes into view, etc.

Yeah, I don't suggest we have a free for all with no respect for each other or the other road users. We have to be sensible. I merely pressed on a bit whilst on a straight piece of road. We should maybe have a "gentlemans agreement" about when we will press on and when we don't? People have mentioned last ten miles but I for one have no idea where 10 miles out is exactly?! Perhaps we should wait until Phil launches it down the right hand side of the road to mark the moment?
I've been out on lots of different group rides ranging from all ride together at 14mph with the CTC at 14 years of age to "all try and smash each other into the ground for 80 miles" with Elites/1st riders and they all have a place. Since moving here in 2011 I tried a few local rides and I like this one a lot. Whilst I don't want to see this degenerate into a "smash each other" ride, I do think there is a place between now and when you race to press on for 30 mins at the end, but before that broadly carry on as we have always done. Even when Phil does the Bishopswood rides in a few weeks I think we should ride tight as last year. If anyone can attack then on the last lap, well good luck to them!

Sorry guys, it's probably my fault for kicking this all off into a debate (again). But from my point of view, what happened on Saturday didn't 'split the group' or practice attacks or any of the things Darren mentioned above, rather you just rode me off cold with no warning. Particularly as we have had many discussions about 'keeping the group together'.

I KNOW I am not strong enough to contest an attack with you lot and i am fine with that but frankly, it would have been better manners to just let me know what was happening so I could drop back and be swept up with the other group. Especially since I now feel I have to defend my position.

You guys have given me so much help and advice over the rides i have been on i and I really appreciate it - I guess I have been a bit spoiled with this so far!

Anyway,- 'if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen'. Point taken. :-/

Hey Jess, you don't have to defend a position at all, this is a forum for opinions on here. None of us are 100% right or wrong unless you're asking who won the TdF in1987 when I first watched it, in which case I'll be 100% right for a change. we are all entitled to express an opinion, at least till Phil blocks my account.

As I said above we should have a "rule" about when you can ride as fast as you can and when you should ride with the masses. Everyone then turns up to the ride knowing this and by definition accepts it. I think it's good we are discussing it, maybe for another few pages yet, but I think we get to the point where we are over thinking it. The problem seems more that it was different and unexpected rather than what it turned out to be. By having the unwritten rule known in advance we can then do these rides without Sharpy or Cam or Martin having to shout that he's about to attack each ride. As that defeats the object!

Lol - yes, an attack is hardly an attack if everyone knows about it!

I agree also we are probably labouring the point a bit.
As the weaker rider, I think I will always be a bit defensive, because it's usually me that gets dropped! . I guess now we've discussed it all, then we'll be on the look out, which as you say makes us sharper riders for racing. And I'll have to pit some hours inon the turbo, or get used to a lonely ride home!

I know I'm not a regular these days but reading this thread 'from the outside' it just occurs to me that you need to ensure that the perception isn't inadvertently created that a 'bike race' occurs every Saturday morning. The local constabulary and more 'concerned' members of the public just might take more interest that we would wish....

Just a thought

Velominati Rule No 5

http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/

Also Rule No 10 and No 20

Rule 59 for earlier in the ride, Rule No 88 also worth mentioning.

And then go back and read Rule No 5 again to remind yourself not to complain!