Topic Title

Yes. There absolutely is!

My power output was in zone 1 for 1:16 of a 2:40 ride. Zone one is recovery riding and has virtually no training benefit.

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/cycling/power-training-levels,-by-andrew-coggan.aspx

Added to that, when my heart rate is under 120 and it's 2 degrees outside, I get pretty damn cold!

I spoke to at least 10 people today who said the pace was stupidly slow. The group splits up for a reason - because people want to ride faster.

I spend 3 months every winter in zone 1 (probably.. don't have anything to measure it by)..Just put more clothing on. This time of year it's just about time in the saddle as far as I'm concerned, if you want the good legs when it matters.

Each to their own. But it's clear there are plenty of people looking to ride at a decent pace!

Phil the route we r doing is spot on for the weather.Someone has to be a bit responsible for these rides and if he or she feels it is the safest option i will go with that any day.To the ride today the av speeds and power outputs say to me that is exactly why there should be two groups and as Darren says what is too slow, 18.8mph?That felt like about right today with everyone contributing to the pace and effort only getting strung out up to Crayke when people go up @ their own pace.78 miles for me feeling pretty ok when i got home.Cheers

Sorry forgot.The groups were split up in the first place so people could ride fast slow inbetween ,So it says to me that either some people r in the wrong group and wont admit it or threre is no one discussing the pace u r ridin or want to ride and tailoring it from there.

Sorry forgot.The groups were split up in the first place so people could ride fast slow inbetween ,So it says to me that either some people r in the wrong group and wont admit it or threre is no one discussing the pace u r ridin or want to ride and tailoring it from there.

absolutely. i do also think the group was way too big today. with the best will in the world it's hard for everyone to get a good workout when you're sat behind such a big group. an additional group was needed today, split by pace. it's always going to be hard to find 18 riders who want to go the same pace.

the tailoring almost always happens in the end; when people get bored. but it really shouldn't have to be that way!

(i do realise that it's not an easy job to organise these things, so please don't think i'm having a go at anyone!)

Looks like you've just volunteered to organise a third group Nick! Congratulations

I managed to get up to the front group after the pee stop but, once I realised they were doing through and off, I wish I hadn't!

I must admit that I enjoyed it, but there's no way I want to be riding at that pace every week until April.

The original pace probably wasn't too bad, I think it was the size of the group that was the problem. It seemed to work out ok though those that wanted to go a bit quicker went off the front and the rest stayed together.

In a group that big you maybe need to change turns quicker or just do bit and bit all the way round...but how can you possibly be bored if you enjoy cycling? I went out on the riders dinner today, 15mph maybe, just as enjoyable as 25mph training rides I've done.

Phil the route we r doing is spot on for the weather.Someone has to be a bit responsible for these rides and if he or she feels it is the safest option i will go with that any day.To the ride today the av speeds and power outputs say to me that is exactly why there should be two groups and as Darren says what is too slow, 18.8mph?That felt like about right today with everyone contributing to the pace and effort only getting strung out up to Crayke when people go up @ their own pace.78 miles for me feeling pretty ok when i got home.Cheers

X2 Cheers Phil and all

FWIW I agree with Martin. The general pace for group 1 was fine, there were just a lot of us. Part of the problem was the lack of coordination- with Phil's group usually Phil keeps the changeovers to every 30 seconds or so- makes for a much more fluid group and even with 16 (as yesterday) the front comes round every 10 mins or so.

Perhaps this is what each group needs- someone who is nominated to keep a grip on the group and an agreement from the group that it's members will enter into the spirit of the group work and not just do their own thing.

In this way the riders who want to work harder or go faster will get their wish as with more frequent changes everyone spends more time on the front and generally the group tends to be a bit quicker.

Coordination in group 2 works well, but it's what has been lacking in group 1 the last 2 weeks.

Each to their own. But it's clear there are plenty of people looking to ride at a decent pace!

You could have waited for people at the stop just after Boroughbridge or at least said you were gonna burn it down the road, then ramped it up and let people who wanted to move over, you was nearly out of sight and I was trying to catch up pushing over time trial effort which is definitely too hard for this time of year, it was a good 6 miles until I lost sight at the roundabout just after the short sharp drag, it was damned painful.

Okay, let's unpick this a little. There's two basic issues:-

-People's abilities vary, so individuals working at the same "training zone" level will go at different speeds, and
-People's view of what's "good winter training" varies - some people like to go harder, some gentler, some inbetween.

Basic solution to this is everyone rides on their own at their own pace (and on their preferred route - but that's another story ). Next best solution is a range of groups going at different average speeds (assuming people in each group keep the effort consistent, and don't fall out over how to deal with hills and flats).

I agree that when you get up to groups of fifteen or more it's harder to make this work - you've got more varied needs/wants in that group, and you're spending more time following wheels. (Mind you, it shouldn't be impossible to agree on shorter turns, or just split the group while on the move. It just takes a polite chat in either case).

So, suggestion:- The Saturday mob gets split into groups no bigger than 10/12. These go off in the order fastest / middling / steadiest. People keep turns on the front to no more than a minute, and if they're suffering make them even shorter. (My usual line to people is that when you're on the front you want to be working at a level of effort you don't want to maintain for more than a couple of minutes max. A minute on the outside line, a minute on the inside line, and you'll want some shelter soon. This should mean the pace for those following wheels is still "endurance" rather than "recovery"). Everyone communicates so that if any change needs to happen, it's done with a bit of respect so no-one gets huffy and no-one spends twenty minutes between groups trying to chase on.

Does that sound okay? Should work for all concerned provided everyone accepts that a bit of compromise is required. Should also look a lot tidier - riders spread all over the Yorkshire countryside trying to chase each other just looks messy on what should be a group ride.

The big issue in Group 1 yesterday was one of etiquette.

Once Cam called the stop, several riders continued on, joined by one or two others who managed a very quick pit stop . This ‘lead’ group then proceeded to hammer it up the road, without it being made known, while others had yet to ‘put themselves away’.

Irrespective of discussions about pace, the lesson several members of Group 1 can learn relates to etiquette!!

Spot on, it's one thing forcing a selection whist the group is together on the road it's another when half the group are unzipped at the side of the road, someone just tell it how it is when you're out there.