Topic Title

I expected things to be tough for me whatever ride I did, but within 20 miles I knew that it was going to be just a case of survival and "lead" the ride by tagging myself firmly at the back of the line and doing nothing. We certainly had a couple of ringers who are going to have to have numbers on their backs this year - that's you J and Dr D.

Given the calibre of those who dropped off (both who did more work on the front than I did and one recovering from injury), I think things were a bit quick for a January steady training ride. If we've a lot out next week I think a bit of group rebalancing is in order.

Not that I'm complaining, nothing gets me fit quicker than being beasted - bring it on.

(Does this sound like a convincing cafe story - if you can't catch us with an top elite rider on your team - you've got a bit of work to do yet Phil )

All I can say is "if it hadn't been for that puncture..."

Suggestion for next week is that we:-

-Stick to two groups but maybe a few people may want to shuffle themselves one way or another,
-We do the "northerly" route which is flatter and generally on wider roads, and...
-We do pretty much the whole ride in through-and-off with...
-Everyone taking turns, so each group works collectively throughout.

If we end up with either group being too big, or with too wide a mix of ability, we split again and make three groups.

In reply to Allan's question; no Garmin graphs from me but the second group were doing about 18mph on the first leg, about 21-22 on the wind-assisted return, and sufficiently less on the hilly middle bit for the average to work out about 18½mph. Pretty much everyone was taking short but regular turns on the front; we weren't flying along but overall our speed was still higher than the first group. Nice to know who's got energy to spare for next week though

Having seen some of the strong riders in the square, it was an easy decision for me to join the first group! - We did set off at a cracking pace - there was a bit of a 'hunted' feeling as we tried to hold off the fast group as long as possible. It seemed to work & we were feeling quite smug about this for a while, that is until we realised that someone must have punctured.

We didn't really get the through & off together - my apologies to Allan as I know I was guilty of rolling through when gaps appeared - we should have just backed off the pace a little, but think a few of us got caught up in pushing the pace on. In fact we didn't realise we had lost 2 of the group until it was too late, so apologies as well to Greg.

The wind was a bit strength sapping (always a problem for me) and I'm not a fan of this route (no idea why) but actually this turned out as quite a good ride for me.
Thanks to a combination of mini mars bars, which I actually remembered to eat, and the white powder that Phil gave me (cheers Phil!) -plus a few tows here & there, I actually managed to do the last 15 miles without feeling like I was going to pass out. Result.

oh dear do i sense a bit of dare i say it competition!what Jess has said says why it works because she realises that riding as a unit works better than individually to be more efficient.Just the thought of being caught made them work better by the sounds of it.Our group worked pretty well as Phil has said on what i think is a class training route as there is no where to hide so if you are not on it it really shows.
cheers Timj

I was definitely not on it yesterday and got knobbled by the windy hills around bramham! Thanks to Phil, Tim and the guy from Sheffield for helping me to get back with the group. Hopefully I'll be back on form next time....

I expected things to be tough for me whatever ride I did, but within 20 miles I knew that it was going to be just a case of survival and "lead" the ride by tagging myself firmly at the back of the line and doing nothing. We certainly had a couple of ringers who are going to have to have numbers on their backs this year - that's you J and Dr D.

Don't blame me - it was all I could do to hang on to Jess! Pride was the only thing that ensured I put a few turns in to 'do my bit for the team' - sorry if this lead to a bit of competition leading to Allan and G getting dropped - Paul was also to blame IMO and no one has mention him yet !

we weren't flying along but overall our speed was still higher than the first group

Ahem, Garmin stats from remnant of first group who made it back to York was 19mph average.....

Thing is its us idiots who rip our legs off to be able to ride the training ride in January that are all washed up by March when the season starts. The real riders are just starting to wind it up now and will be flying by then....

"Ahem, Garmin stats from remnant of first group who made it back to York was 19mph average....."

Ahhh... ...I was using Andy's stats up to Naburn which showed 17.6, but as a non-Garmin-user I'm possibly prone to misunderstanding.

But yes, "steady" should probably still be the word in January...

But yes, "steady" should probably still be the word in January...

Reflecting on the above, as I'm sure Phil knows well, Friel mentions that training rides can degenerate into informal races and counsels caution about them for this reason. Also that one riders 'tempo' pace is another's LT training pace and thus group rides may not serve differing riders needs appropriately.

Having said this in a club environment it's also about getting together to have some company and fun on the bike and not just about obsessively serving one's idealised training needs, whilst accepting that these rides are not primarily aimed at ordinary club riders but at the aspiring racers amongst us.

Absolutely right, Dr.D. I'd add a couple of extra points - much in the same vein...
-For any of you planning on doing TLI events (or clearing off in a break in other races) you need to learn how to work in a group to get the best from the group. Riders who could be working as part of a group but who hammer off the front and then just sit there knackering themselves for a couple of minutes hanging off the front do no-one any favours.
-Keeping it steady in the early part of long rides means you're still able to give 100% in the last hour of the ride, rather than gradually running out of steam. You want to be pretty much wrung out by the time you roll up to your back gate, but you'll get best value from a ride if you're able to maintain steady 100% effort pretty much right up until then.
-Keep turns on the front short - a couple of minutes is enough because you'll be pushing along at (probably) something a bit over your TT level of effort. Everyone else who's following a wheel will (hopefully) be well under this level of effort - if the splitting into groups of roughly equal ability has worked - but wants to be working harder than club run pace.
-You can do the more intense suffering on your own - interval work, sprints, hill stuff works best when you're just concerned with your own limits and not with the suffering (or otherwise) of others. You'll soon find out how effective it's been when you get a number on your back...

All of the above are merely the views of the author and do not represent etc etc...

I think Phil is absolutely right in laying out some reminders which underpin effective group riding.....I encourage us to heed them.........especially given that road races are group-based and that this is the racing/training part of the Club.....and, for some riders, the season starts next month............

Let's not bicker and argue over 'oo killed 'oo (ah..Python). It's excellent we've got such a lot of people out on the training rides, so we should be able balance things so that most people, most of the time get the sort of ride that's hard enough to improve their fitness without the demoralisation of being shelled off the back.

Well I opted for the slow group on Saturday as it was my first for a while...but looking at some of the above I wonder if I was on the same ride.

The ride was set out on this thread as a 'fox and hounds' chase so, after a couple of discussions as we set off, of 'are we going to try to stay away then?', 'well I think that's the plan', there's no surprise that the group had a slightly hunted feel to it. However, I only had 18.4 ave as we arrived back in York, which included a section from Sherburn with a tail wind pushing us at mid 20's, so hardly a ferocious pace (and a girl kept up after all!:lol:). I’m certain there wasn’t anyone trying to split the group or shred riders.

IMHO the only slight problem we had was discipline/rhythm. Despite several efforts we never managed to get a rolling system going to work efficiently and this is probably why some found it harder than they should have. There was also almost no communication up and down the line either. I only heard 1 shout of 'ease off a bit' which, given that we dropped 2 riders and some were uncomfortable, shouldn’t be the case.

It's also interesting to hear some thought the front were impatiently filling the gaps. I spent some time at the front - and some hanging off the back on the lumpy section - but at the front it was really difficult to get riders to move through. No amount of elbow twitching, arm waving or looking back seemed to work sometimes which would often lead to 2 or 3 riders taking repeated turns to 'rescue' the front rider from a long stint. There’s no better feeling than working in a rhythm with everyone taking equal and short turns; the pace settles down to one everyone can cope with and the miles seem to fly by effortlessly.

Anyway good ride and great to get out without the fear of ice spoiling the day.

Yeah but what a girl.

Let's not worry over whether it was too slow or too fast or who did what. It was a good ride wasn't it. All I know is if I keep doing these I'll get fitter and lighter and in a week or three be able to do a few turns on the front.

I'm looking forward Saturday already and I'll see you all there, let's hope there's no ice.