Topic Title

I've been having an e-conversation with Muzzy recently (as in "e-mail" rather than "eeeeee, the kids today...") about the club and where did our road racing success of a few years back disappear to. Top BC points-scorers in Yorkshire, the TLI shield holders, etc.

In my capacity as outgoing Membership Sec I know that 52 - yes, 52! - of the 2009 members ticked the box on their form to say that they either were road racing or planned to. Looking back over the year, there were about, what, 3-4 who did BC events, three of us who did vets races and maybe 7-8 who did TLI races, either the Chevin series or up at Croft.

Which led me to think:- what happened to the other forty-odd, what put them off, and what could the club do this winter to encourage more people to get road racing in 2010? If you're one of that forty-odd, or a newcomer to the club who plans to race... ...this is your thread.

I've had a couple of ideas so far, and would appreciate feedback and further ideas. We could possibly...

1. Start up the Saturday training ride (2½-3hrs non-stop, brisk but keep as a group, do some through-and-off on the return leg) in the New Year.
2. Talk with York St.Johns about doing a winter/spring series aimed at training for racing. A short series of evening sessions about sport science / training / etc and how to do a training plan, followed by some gym/lab support for those who wanted it - before and after ramp test, whatever.

What do people want (if anything)?

i had a bash at a bc race...got shot out the back after less than a lap which kinda put me off for the rest of the year. my own fault though as just wasn't fit enough so will again tick the road racing box this coming year but this time get a proper winter etc under my belt! would be interested in the brisk sat idea as struggle to justify spending the whole day out to my good lady! the ramp test etc is an interesting idea also

Good thread Phil,

I think both of your suggestions would help and would be well received (I'm interested in both).

Something else that might help is an “adopt a rookie” system, to provide aspiring racers with some support and encouragement – I’m not really talking about racing tactics (although that would help), but more something to help overcome those initial nerves that I'm sure we all face.

Having raced for the first time myself last year (a few events at Croft), the biggest obstacle for me wasn’t the fitness aspect, it was the confidence aspect – my post here http://www.cliftoncc.org/discussion/vie ... php?t=1957 hopefully explains what I mean (and saves me a load of typing…). The key there for me was bumping in to Rich and realising that I wasn’t the only one with reservations. Once I got the confidence issues out of the way I could focus on the fitness issues.

My racing opportunities will be severely limited next year (new baby due in May…), but as and when I can make it (probably at Croft due to the easy “turn up and ride” option) I’d be more than happy to provide a lift and encouragement to others.

Jason.

Hi all
Phil that sounds like a great idea 2 3 hour sat runs.Trained too a plan last year on my own and too have a window of opportunity too train with other racers would give extra motivation and maybe give the club something of a structure too go into races.Experienced racers could pass on advice too others .Last year in TLI every race i learnt a bit more .I think the biggest obstacle i had was actually entering the series.Then you know that you r going to have too race so the little excuses dont work and then u race and with me it was no looking back. It was exellent.
cheers Timj

Saturday training ride (discussed on 2 other threads already?) sounds good, I reckon I could make it evey other week or so, if it started good'n'early.

I'd encourage everyone who's thinking about it to give racing a go, and I even thought it might be useful to have a get-together for those planning to ride the TLI, both old hands and new, in March.

But on the original question - isn't retention as much an issue as recruitment? What happened to the winners of all those points - did they slow down, or leave?

Thanks for the postings, folks. Some initial quick responses.

We'll kick off a Saturday training ride in the New Year, which I'll ride whenever possible. Muzzy's up for doing the same with a Sunday training ride - 3-4hrs aimed at those who are serious about getting some entries in.

I'll make contact with York St.Johns and see what can be set up. I'm sure there may be costs involved (albeit they've been very reasonable in the past) so at some point I'll ask for provisional numbers so we can see how it shares around.

Re:- Tom's question on retention. The BC points (purely from memory, so if you scored a shedload, and I've forgotten you, and you're reading this - then, sorry) came from Kit (semi-pro now), Muzzy (still there), Nick Butcher (still there but concentrating on off-road?), Andy Johnson (now doing mainly TT's and only second-claim member), Andy Johnston (still there) and Paul Bridgen (working down south but I think also frustrated by club's lack of focus - no longer a member). The aged photo of a group holding up the TLI shield shows Ian H and me (still doing 'em), Muzzy (focusing on BC events), Andy Johnson (as above), Arthur (having babies) and Steve Wood (not road racing at the mo). So.. ..a variety of reasons...

Re:- That First Race. I did the Wetwang BC 3rds/4ths as my first road race and was duly spat out the back during the first lap. But so were a number of others, so we rode round and finished. The second race I hung on longer, and by the third or fourth I was surviving in the bunch. The Tuesday night chaingang - and racing itself - is a great way of getting up to speed if you can grit your teeth and keep your sense of the possible intact. I know Muzzy would urge many of you to bypass the TLI's completely (to be honest if 52 of us entered, we'd just about fill it anyway) and just target BC events. There are people in the club who can give advice on which events to have a crack at and how to prepare, and we'll get some more thoughts down about ways to do this. Likewise, for any of you over 40, vets racing is great fun (and you can start off in an older group if you want a - slightly - easier intro) - Dave Cook had a very wide smile after the last race we rode together.

To be continued... ...but come on, the rest of you - let's be hearing from you!

.........Charlie Evans, Steve Savage, Matt Shipley, Andy Stanforth were all riding BC events 2/3 years back and scoring points - strength in depth.
What makes road racing a tough prospect for anyone starting out is that there are 60+ other guys on the start line who are stronger, more experienced and all think they can win. Nerves and self doubt are hard to shake off and even after 20 years of doing this you would be unlikely to see me at Croft!
My first road race was Featherstone RC's event March 1988. An event and course that are now a distant memory. Dave Byworth was the only guy in Clifton with any road racing experience and when I say that I don't mean he was winning every week but he new his way around an entry form, knew which events to enter and the way to events and had a car. Without that kind of practical support I'd have never got into racing in open events. I didn't finish that day. In fact I don't actually remember finishing in the bunch in an event that year until October.
I think you have to treat it as a long term project - if at first you don't succeed.......
The following year was in a similar vein, the following year I had my first top 6 finish, the following year I had my first (of not very many) win.
If circumstances are anything like last year I think we will have to ride whatever events we can. I've always had a preference for BC events due to the points and category system but I've ridden a few LVRC events which are certainly hard enough and cheap to enter. I've ridden loads of TLI events in the past - its all good experience.
But for anyone thinking of riding BC events, there are only so many places available so if anyone else is planning to ride some early season events we will need to get organised and get events entered in the new year.

Paul Bridgen (working down south but I think also frustrated by club's lack of focus - no longer a member)

Exactly! Complete lack of focus, frustrates me too. The club has become more focussed on day long club runs exchanging germs in a cafe half way through. If this is what some riders enjoy,no problem. But riding across the moors and back doesn't give you the type of fitness for racing. Sure you have to be very fit to be able to do these rides but it's completely different in any kind of race. This may be why you're spat straight out the back.

I also think the level of racing or competition the club aims at is way too low. It's so uninspiring. The TLI races are so dangerous i'm not sure i'll ever ride another. It's ok in the scratch group but when you catch the front group especially near the finish it's chaos! And not in the good way.
To answer Phil-yes i'm concentrating on off road, did Wetwang this yr though but was still not recovered from a MTB race the week before so turned off to the car before the final climb! I'm also completely alone as an XC racer in the club which i can't believe given the amount of MTBers in the club. I replied to a post from a potential racer earlier this year curious about xc racing which was then backed up with a post about trailquests. I have done these before and yeah, they're fun but it's not exactly racing. Again,uninspiring and not aiming at proper competition.

I turned to off road this year after the cancellation of the catterick E123 road race-i'm not planning a season around a load of races that may not go ahead. I'll be doing more BC road races next yr between XC races but not as a Clifton rider. Another thing that makes me not want to ride with a Clifton jersey on is seeing the clunruns going out with 10-15 riders spread allover the road-come on tidy it up!
I don't want the above to look ike a rant but i think these are some of the issues with Phils original question.

I Think Nick has some valid points there, I noticed this year that apart from Muzzy/Phil on the BC front and Nick on the MTB side of things that no one seems to have had a good crack at Racing this year.

The Tli report threads frustrated me too, with members reporting they had been chasing down attacks in the front group, why not attack and go with them? hardly inspiring stuff there.

I know Im not really in a position to critise having moved clubs for one with more ambition, but I think if Clifton is to get back a core of racing members then some strutcured rides need to put back on and supported.

What makes road racing a tough prospect for anyone starting out is that there are 60+ other guys on the start line who are stronger, more experienced and all think they can win. Nerves and self doubt are hard to shake off

I think this is it for me in a nutshell - I reckon I have done reasonably well to come from a non-exerciser to my current standard in 2.5 yrs approx but TBH cannot see that I have the time/ability to reach a standard where I can truly compete in a 3/4 BC race. Hence the field are going to give me a right royal kicking - what's the point? Who am I kidding thinking I can 'race' when actually I'm just going to make an arse of myself!

Well... ...I don't reckon I've got any particular (cycling related) talent built into my genes and I regularly line up with a bunch of blokes who all look fitter and (with the exception of vets races, when they look more wily) much, much younger than me. I train on a weekly average of 7hrs on the bike, and I run my own business, manage to keep a family vaguely aware of my presence, and have processed a few membership applications in my time too. I've had no big triumphs in BC races but I'm competitive and (as Muzzy always reminds me when I need reminding) have had plenty of finishes up near the front.

Racing isn't for everyone - you didn't tick the box on the form, Dave, so I wasn't even aiming the original post in your direction - but if you do fancy a go then don't talk yourself out of it. It does require some proper training - unless you're monumentally talented - but it's pretty much a case of commit - enter - train - turn up and give it 100%.

Will hopefully have some news to post on here pretty soon about some racing-specific support from YSJ linked to the suggested New Year training rides. Alongside the club being out there on the big sportives, the welcoming social rides and the good stuff on the dirt, let's get Clifton back up there on top of the race results, eh?

I think this is it for me in a nutshell - I reckon I have done reasonably well to come from a non-exerciser to my current standard in 2.5 yrs approx but TBH cannot see that I have the time/ability to reach a standard where I can truly compete in a 3/4 BC race. !

You have the time and the ability. Can the long rides, train smart.

I think this is it for me in a nutshell - I reckon I have done reasonably well to come from a non-exerciser to my current standard in 2.5 yrs approx but TBH cannot see that I have the time/ability to reach a standard where I can truly compete in a 3/4 BC race. !

You have the time and the ability. Can the long rides, train smart.

I know this is the way to go if racing was my No 1 priority.

I've had it in my head to get a VO2 max test done just to give some indication of potential - if it's low I could forget the whole racing thing for good on the 'you can't polish a turd' principle. Trouble is; if it was reasonable I'd have less of an excuse for not training for racing - I'd then have to HTFU and get out there!

I think there's more being raised here than just training and it should be transferred to the main forum.

A few points I'd like to make;

1. A Sports Club is run by its members for its members. Surely the type and variety of activity is driven by what the membership wants, members organise it then it happens. All too often members blame 'the Club' for not doing things forgetting they are the Club also and if they don't step forward and organise things they may not happen.

2. Some people join Clubs and ride with them for the Social aspects as well as the Sports aspects. I thought Muzzy had an excellent saying a year ago which I keep remembering that we should always be encouraging members to put on a number and have a go at some competition. This is what defines us as a Sports Club rather than a leisure club surely? There seems to be some suggestion that we should scrap everything that can't be defined as a training ride for road racing.

3. As in most sports there are many disciplines that make up competition or racing. (Def of Race: Sports To compete in a contest of speed). Just because what floats someone's boat as a race shouldn't give them the divine right to dis other disciplines. Nick - since you got personal about a previous post of mine (which you clearly didn't readd properly) I'll single you out. You've ranted here about the MTBers and yes you are correct we now have a lot. Whilst I'm sure that you may be quite good at XC as a discipline I'm absolutely sure you'd be put in your place by other riders who've done Races this year like the Mega Avalanche in the Alps, the Brownbacks Quarry Series, the MTB Marathon Series etc etc. There are plenty out there racing but as you've never bothered turning up on a ride all year you wouldn't know. It's easy to criticise from an armchair without all the facts isn't it.

Maybe if the people who see a gap in what 'the Club' is doing spent less time criticising and more time helping to organise, 'the Club' might look more like they want it to.

"I'm absolutely sure you'd be put in your place by other riders who've done Races this year like the Mega Avalanche in the Alps, the Brownbacks Quarry Series, the MTB Marathon Series"

And how on earth would you know that?! What a ridiculous thing to say from the 'MTB club captain' very supportive. Where is the rant about the MTBers? This is a thread about racing, not marathon EVENTS. And for you info, i have done several Meridas.

re the brownbacks, are you kidding? The riders who are frequently coming top 5 have finished behind me in the BMBS. Brownbacks is a non BC points event to ease people into racing. These events are great but you completely got the wrong end of the stick. After that post is there any wonder i don't come on any rides.