Topic Title

So what intensity would it be and how would it help you achieve your goals?

Do you think that doing 40 minutes at an intensity you can hold, will stimulate the aerobic/anaerobic parts of the system you would need to go fast enough for a 25 minute 10 miler, which to achieve you would have to ride at a higher intensity than you can hold at the moment?

Isn't this the questions you should be asking yourself?

It's confusing.

Maybe I'll just stick to 4min intervals and next week have a go at 20min intervals. I'm not 100% understanding it at the moment still.

I'm only 41 seconds away from a 25min dead on, I'm pretty sure I should be able to do that this year if I try, just need to improve into the wind and it appears this week has some strong wind I could try the intervals into.

Will,

You need to be doing intervals slightly faster than 25 mins for 10 mile pace (did give you a clue) or you will not be working the systems you need, ie: lactate tolerance & buffering.

So I would suggest if you are trying to make the breakthrough and with only a couple of the 10 milers left, 10 x 4 minute efforts with full recovery at or slightly above race speed. (Full recovery probably being 4 minutes spinning in an easier gear). If you find you cannnot hold the pace then give yourself more recovery and look to reduce the recovery time each week.

Brian

Will,

You need to be doing intervals slightly faster than 25 mins for 10 mile pace (did give you a clue) or you will not be working the systems you need, ie: lactate tolerance & buffering.

So I would suggest if you are trying to make the breakthrough and with only a couple of the 10 milers left, 10 x 4 minute efforts with full recovery at or slightly above race speed. (Full recovery probably being 4 minutes spinning in an easier gear). If you find you cannnot hold the pace then give yourself more recovery and look to reduce the recovery time each week.

Brian

10x 4mins, even with recovery I think by the last 5 I'd be getting slower and very tired out.

And so you say I need to do each 4min interval basically at more effort than I would be putting in on a 10mile TT? I put in my best effort on the TT, my max really.

Will, when you are doing a TT you put in the max that you can hold for 25 minutes+ not that you can hold for 4 minutes.

Try it. Either on a turbo, then the efforts are easily measurable or on a stretch of open road.

If you do this session once a week, plus the TT as your speed work sessions, then you will improve both your power and speed.

Brian

Will, when you are doing a TT you put in the max that you can hold for 25 minutes+ not that you can hold for 4 minutes.

Try it. Either on a turbo, then the efforts are easily measurable or on a stretch of open road.

If you do this session once a week, plus the TT as your speed work sessions, then you will improve both your power and speed.

Brian

Ok, I will try the 4min intervals.

If I find myself struggling or getting significantly slower on later intervals like over 5, should I just keep at them or stop?

Will, if you struggle with the later ones, you're not pacing yourself. As an example, I know if I want to do an "all-out-everything-I-can-give" effort over 4-5 mins or so I can do about 330W (eg at last year's hillclimb). But I know if I want to do five 4-min intervals with 4min recovery inbetween, I need to keep them all at around 285-290W or I'll just fall apart as the session progresses. So work at judging pace and effort.

Thats the confusing bit.

I'm told to do it at a higher pace than a 10mile TT, but if I where going to pace myself to do all the 4min intervals I'd have to go slower.

No in a TT you do not have the rest, which allows the blood to clear the lactic acid, to a certain degree and therefore you can repeat the effort.

Why they might feel harder than a TT is the fact that you will be pumped with adrenelin for a TT, which does not happen quite the same why doing efforts. Make sure you are throughly warmed up before you do the efforts.

B

Well I've tried the 10*4 intervals

What does the average pace mean?

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/9315294

I might have been better to do a loop, but as you can see I tried the drag near stillingfleet as suggested by rob, that was tough and I tried to turn around at the top as fast as I could so I did not recover inside the interval, don't know if there is an improvement since last week although I guess I should not expect an improvement in 1 week.

It seems hard to go fast as you are able to, I was going along again today struggling along but thinking I might have more. But I'm not massively tired, I know if there was some hills round here and I went up one now I'd struggle compared to if I went normally.

As last week I kept getting cramps in my right and left side and a weird sensation in my right shoulder.


Maybe I should keep at the 4min intervals for 2 weeks then up it to 5mins or keep at 4mins and just reduce recovery for 2 weeks after.

I tried to turn around at the top as fast as I could

For god sake be careful. Start your effort in such a place that you finish at the top of the drag. This means you can turn safely at your leisure. Then ride back to the start as your recovery. Turn again carefully and repeat. Don't worry about getting the lengths of the efforts right to the second - it really doesn't matter. Just FFS be careful doing U-turns - I suggested that road partly as its nice and wide and straight, it's where I used to do them, but you still have to be careful.

FWIW - if your training for 10s (to the exclusion of every other form of competition) - as a 10 is 24-26mins of effort for you, then, if you really think 4 minute efforts is the way to go, I'd do 6 x 4 mins, as 6 x 4 = 24. But I'd do them really well.

Hmmm, I'll try 6*4 next time then. If I was training for a 25miler would that mean I'd do 12 intervals, and for a 50 I'd have to do 24 intervals?

It was quiet, I guess next time I'll warm up to the hill, I did 2 miles warm up today

If I was training for a 25miler would that mean I'd do 12 intervals, and for a 50 I'd have to do 24 intervals?

Hey, one of your better questions Will! If you follow the logic - if you were training for RAAM you'd do 3240 x 4 mins wouldn't you? Well, Justsweat and Stacy are evidently bonkers, but not that bonkers, I hope. The answer is that for the longer stuff you don't do short intervals. If preparing for a ca. 1hr TT I'd do something like 2x12 + 2x9 + 2x6. But for the moment Will, keep it simple, do 6x4, no more than once a week, for the next few weeks and see how you get on.

And remember that after each effort you are going to be even more Doolally than you normally are, so be careful!

good theory re. the number of reps, but remember Will, there's a difference between winter reps (when you are setting your base fitness)and summer reps (when you want to perform in the races).

When I was training for competitive track racing (1500m) then in the winter I might do a session of 12 x 400m with 2 minutes recovery. Early summer season would be more typical 6 x 400m (with 3 mins recovery) and then I'd always complain on the Wed before a w/e race (well only an important one) because my coach would want me to do only 3 x 400m with about 20minutes recovery between each. What was the point of turning up for 3 x 400m?

It worked and with some individual tailoring most of the 800m-3000m runners were following similar theories.

I never transferred the discipline myself to cycling, but the theory sounds sensible.

I've never really thought about separating winter and summer, in winter I've just proceeded as normal on the bike, same distances, same speed etc...


I'm not going to do the TT this week, I was wanting to see how I would do on that course but the prolonged time on the bike at full power really takes it out of my knee (yes I am allowed to ride on it, the doctor says), but I might still go up and watch the TT as I need to go to york anyway, would be an opportunity to do another interval session since I'd be going at a harder intensity if I did the TT, or maybe just ride as normal as I've being told to do one a week.