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by Arthur Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:32 am
Following on from last nights discussion, how about a discussion on the chaingang? I've put it in this forum not the future one since several of the interested people are non-members.

If we want to move to a tight loop to encourage people, how about this little look just outside Askham Richard?

http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi? ... left.y=215

It's probably 1 or 1 1/2 miles round, so it'd be easy for people to sit up and get a rest. Even better it's acutally got a huge hill each lap. Well, ok, it's got a railway bridge each lap, but at least it's something to make it harder.

Ride out, do 1 hour + 1 lap round? Ride back steady?

Thoughts?

by PhilBixby Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:39 pm
Hey, that's my secret intervals circuit! (and Colin's, and Charlie's, and probably yours too..)

It's a possibility. I think maybe there are two options:-

-A short circuit like the one you suggest, so everyone rides in one group, but if they crack then they've got the chance to sit up and re-join a lap later.

-or-

-Two groups. My suggestion (as already posted on another thread) would be to stick to current route, ride out together and then split into two groups. "Fast" group does two laps of the loop and is exactly as per current chaingang - flat out with only differentiation being that the real strong riders take longer turns on the front. "Less fast" group does one lap of the loop; works to stick together and has at least one experienced racer who gives advice to keep it working as well as possible. Focus is on through-and-off technique and riding smoothly and safely, and pretty quick. This group would be a way in for riders moving from "challenge" riding towards competition - it would be one of the "stepping stones" between the two that we talked about at last night's meeting. It would require one regular road racer to drop back into the second group - could easily be rotated on basis of who didn't have specific races coming up. If ever we got a coach then they could take a stint at this sometimes. The two groups then go like an aussie pursuit all the way home.

Likewise, thoughts?

by Arthur Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:44 pm
We'd need groups anywhere given the differences in strength. The advantage of the tight circuit is that it lets people mix'n'match and anyone who gets dropped can just rest for 5 mins until the group comes round again.

What you propose sounds good for people. I just suggest we do that on a tight circuit.

by PhilBixby Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:22 pm
Point taken Arthur. I suppose my only concern with the shorter circuit is that you're going round a tight corner every few hundred yards, which breaks up the rhythm of the group. But we could try it on both. I think it'd be worth trying the two groups thing though - one just for speed, one for technique. And we should publicise it within the club to make sure we get those riders who are thinking about racing next year.

by Arthur Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:36 pm
Yeah, it might not work, or it might just feel like a crit. I say give it a go and see if it works.

by Rob Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:49 pm
Phil's suggestion sounds far more organised, but you're going to need a lot of communication so that everyone knows what's going on. One of you is going to have to stand and talk to the whole group at the start! Could I suggest some sort of pop-up soap box that collapses into your bottle cage? :wink:

by PhilBixby Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:00 pm
<Stands on pop-up soap box>

Well.. ..assuming most of the chaingang newbies are Clifton members, we can simply put an agreed set of guidelines on here for everyone to read and digest before the event. The non-Cliftonites who regularly do the chaingang will all be in the "fast" group and can simply be told it's business as usual and to just let the slower group drop off the back at the agreed point.

<leaps from soap box>

by Iain M Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:16 am
Both proposals sound really good to me. As a newcomer to the chain gang, I would say that it seems a massive step up in intensity from the club runs and the Saturday morning training ride. Having a second chain gang or tight circuit could bridge that discontinuity, providing an accessible and graduated step up to the main chain gang. I think it would also be great if there was as a ride where newcomers could learn / practice pace line techniques (particularly the circular pace line) at slower speeds to refine their technique. Perhaps this falls within the realm of activity-based coaching that we discussed on Monday?

by MikeG Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:01 pm
Sounds good to me too.

Having been blown out of the back on my few attempts to hang onto the back of the traditional chaingang earlier this year I'd welcome the chance to gain the extra speed/technique needed to eventually go with the quicker group and have a go at some racing next year. As things were it was just too big a jump for me this year from Saturdays to the chaingang as others have obviously found too. I'll be back for more punishment though!

by fatsprinter Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:54 pm
Thank you for posting the discussion in the public forum. It is good to talk and dicuss things since there are many riders from different clubs and backgrounds all taking part and who enjoy and benefit from the chain gang.

Either options sounds interesting i.e. the short route and the longer route. The main point to consider is to keep communication open and ensure that riders know the objectives of the ride. Then the rider can make a decision on whether that ride meets his/her objectives.

The option of a slower group does have its advantages in that inexperienced riders can practice technique and riding in close quarters. A chain gang at high speed needs to be as smooth as possible and the riders riding as close as possible to fully benefit from slipstreaming. It can be a little disconcerting for inexperienced riders to ride so close and more practice would be beneficial.

Also, experienced riders are more wary when riding around inexperieced riders as they are sometimes erratic and make sudden changes in direction, which if you are six inches from someones wheel can be quite dangerous. Perhaps representative of the club could contact the BCF and gain advice from one of their coaches on how best to organise such a thing. It would be good to have their 'expert' advice on the matter.

Good luck in the future discussions. I'm sure there are many other roads that are available for chain ganging or speed work. The short circuit is quite good in that it teaches cornering at speed and is very inteval based.

I have used a one mile circuit round Teletubbyland (thorpe arch ind est) for intervals and after 6pm there is vitually no traffic there at all. It would be excellent as crit type training.

De tijd gaat snel, gebruik hem wel!
Schaarf!!

by paulM Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:49 pm
I'm with Phil and think the existing circuit would be better than a 1.5 mile circuit with a hill in it and a dead turn each lap in Appleton Roebuck. It would make a great race circuit but not a good group training circuit.
And another thing ....... We don't all live on the South side of York - I can't say I fancy riding through town and back every Tuesday unless we were planning to meet somewhere more central??
What you need is something not too technical, fast & flat - If you like the idea of a circuit on that side of town why not the Acaster Selby / Appleton Roebuck circuit - a couple of left hand corners and a couple of bends a bit of wind over the airfield and dead quiet roads and not quite such a long road out for me - or why not use our existing 10 mile TT circuit at Strensall - a slightly shorter version would miss out Sutton on Forest and the B1363 - I've road raced on it and its ok?
At least on this type of circuit it should be easier to keep a smooth line-out so even if you can't go through you can sit-in. Picking a circuit so that riders can drop off and wait for the group to come round again just seems wrong?

by Arthur Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:31 am
The Strensall circuit would be good to ride on, but is a bit further out for most people. Maybe meet at Nestle if we were going to use that?

It might seem wrong to use a short circuit so people can wait up (and I know what you mean) but it'll be a lot easier for new people if they think they won't be dropped away from anywhere. It would also make it easier to co-ordinate having a couple of groups - maybe we could work out the timings so that one group chased the other like an Oz pursuit? Would make it a bit more fun maybe?

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