Topic Title

Following some variations of view regarding the nature of the Inters ride, and as someone who makes it out most Saturdays, I thought it would be a good idea to have a constructive and good natured discussion amongst those who also rode with the 'Inters' to help guide the future development of the ride. Having 'thrown my teddy out of the pram' and then been in receipt of comments asking me to re-consider I don't claim a mandate to dictate the course of the inters ride but with any luck we can clarify what we want from the ride as the season progresses.

My thoughts are that the Inters ride primarily caters for those who want a reasonably challenging all day ride at a decent club-run pace, with a 45-60 minute cafe stop. The ride should try and keep together with stronger riders taking most of the turns on the front, waiting at times to allow regrouping and relaying stragglers if necessary should they be having an off-day (we've all been there!) Less strong riders should endeavour to sit in the wheels if necessary to reduce their effort levels.

Within this general scheme are all manner of variations in pace, distance and terrain. Also differences in fitness occur - both between individual riders and also within individuals over time. What suits one person one week won't suit everyone - nor the same rider a different week when fitness levels and fatigue levels vary.

Kevin has generally supplied a variety of routes over the years ranging from 65 to 105 miles. Many of these have become familiar staples - eg Cockayne. Others are 'long summer day specials' when a late return can be anticipated. I think we can all agree that Kev has done - and continues to do - a fantastic job on behalf of the inters ride. Without prejudicing the discussion it has occurred to me that it might be appropriate for the actual riders to consider taking some responsibility for their route choice.

It may be that a splitting into 2 groups might best cater for a wider spectrum of options as numbers hopefully increase over the summer. A '70' ride and a '100' ride would give choices to suit most current 'inters' and enable a common start time of 10 o'clock. Alternatively a 9 am start time 'a la 'H' ride' might prove popular amongst some enabling an earlier return from a longer ride.

What I will say is that there are only so many variations of routes within a given distance from York and one of the pleasures of longer days for me is the option to visit new roads and vistas as well as try and progress my riding a little. I accept though that this is a personal view and that other - equally valid - thoughts are held.

So come on guys (and gals) - what do you think?

I might as well go first - someone's got to! Although my opinion should count for half at most as I only ever make the all day ride every other week and since Christmas with family and other stuff have only made it a couple of times.

If I can make a full day ride then I would prefer as long a ride as possible. If I'm going to basically write off the whole day then I might as well get as much benefit as possible. I would also be up for starting earlier (9ish) but that's because with kids it works much better for me being home comfortably in time for tea.

These are only perfect scenarios for me. I am grateful for anyone stepping up and organising a ride for me to basically just turn up for and will still be coming to as many of these as I can regardless of the future plan.

Sue

Here are a few thoughts from a relative newbie to the Inters.

1) It does make sense for the length of the ride to fluctuate seasonally as daylight/weather make longer rides possible. I think Karl does raise a good point that the distances have ramped up dramatically this spring, which is fine for those who have been out all winter, but has clearly taken its toll on those who are still brushing off the winter cobwebs. Perhaps the 100+ mile days should wait until further into the summer (except for the first nice day of spring, when it's hard to resist riding all day!).

From a training philosophy perspective, when building mileage, a two or three-week ramp followed by a shorter week is usually a good approach (something like 75, 80, 90, 75, 85, 90, ...). Of course, this only works for building endurance if everyone is riding regularly (both week to week and on their own during the week).

2) What is and what should be the distinction between the Saturday 10am and Sunday 9am ride? My impression was that the two tend to move at a similar pace, but the Sunday group goes longer. Admittedly, I'm generally unencumbered by weekend commitments, so can pick and choose depending on how I feel week-to-week. Perhaps there could be some coordination between Saturday and Sunday rides so that both don't end up choosing particularly long rides on the same weekend?

3) If the Saturday Inters were split into a 9am 90-100 mile ride and a 70 mile 10am ride, I worry that this would end up diluting the numbers to the point that there aren't consistent core groups that know the routes, group etiquette, etc.? (You certainly don't want to end up with me navigating for a ride!) That said, at peak season, when the Inters group is greater than ~14 riders, it is worth splitting for safety's sake. At that point, the split might as well be done along the lines of either pace or distance.

4) Both Kevin and Dr. Dave's routes have been fantastic. I've really enjoyed being able to learn my way around new roads without needing to stop at every intersection and pull out the map.

Thanks for taking the initiative on this, Dr.Dave. And for guiding us on some of these rides too, because like Eric I am a hopeless navigator!

I'm hesitant to suggest changes in case it alienates people, since the majority of Intermediate riders will be joining us soon and don’t post often.
But here are a few little ideas for the ride:

1. For the Intermediate cyclists to try to draft together as a group when the road is pretty flat.
We’ve recently started drifting off the back in twos and threes largely out of choice, causing the rest of the group up ahead to slow down… so the twos and threes can continue to pootle at 16 mph 30 yards back… so we’re all just pootling for a couple of miles, then regroup and soon repeat (this behaviour might have led to this thread, since it is all connected).

2. So that the stronger Intermediate riders are getting a challenge they enjoy, perhaps they could:
# Pull on the front for most of the first hour at 20-21 mph through the vale of York (Shaun W and Tony G style).
# Be first up the biggest climbs and then go halfway back down and do it again.
# Start cycling at 9am and tap out close to 20 miles before arriving at the Square at 10 am (a bit like Jon G).

3. If stronger riders want to push themselves further, perhaps re-start the old “H” ride (named after Howard D)? So as to not dilute the Intermediates ride, the 4 or so keenest cyclists at the Square can go on an impromptu 90-110 mile café stop ride at a 17+mph faster pace.
Is that what the handful of “H” riders did in the past? They pick their own route with no club input on the weekly email to keep it all simple.

Other than the above 3 tweaks, maybe just keep the Intermediates format as it is. The same system and routes as delivered in the past. 80-90 miles around now. 85-105 in full Summer. 65-75 in winter.
A ride that is doable and useful to many in the club.

What do others think?

I think the A ride works in general OK.
There is a regular core of riders led by Dr Dave ( who we are all very gratefull for doing so ).
With people droping in & out on a Saturday as they want, all are welcome.
But as Dr Dave has said earlier, at times the pace can quicken & can be testing when hilly, but the group will
always re-group & help others when required to.

It is hard, if not impossible, to please everyone regarding average speed & distance travelled. We all have had with no exception, bad & very bad days ( & more in the future) this is were the stronger riders on the day can help out on the front.

Anybody joining the A ride for the first time just needs to be aware of the distance & terraine the rides can take, I initially was apprehensive about moving from the K ride but I was welcomed & encouraged by the other riders.
Regarding the length of the rides at present, we have had a mild winter & a lot of people have ridden all through the winter & now we have the better weather it is good to get to new roads & countryside, but saying that we also don't want to put other people off by the distance we are riding at present.

I think to sum up, I think things are working ok for the A ride & all are welcome but some times it hurts as we try to get fitter togeather on a sporting but social ride at varing speeds,distances & levels of gradiant.

V. glad all the Inters guys have kissed and made up.

My vote is to open up the issue to friendly debate, then consider the responses in a balanced and fair manner…then not change anything!

I’m a semi-regular of both Sunday and Saturday Inters rides, swapping too many times between the two to be called a regular of either. So a few points from me:

• It’s not about the distance, it’s more about the speed and the tightness of the group. Go on a Sunday ride and watch the Master at work – he was yelling “knock one off” in the first 10 miles of the recent Banks ride because the main focus was making sure everyone was together in the last 10 miles.
• The big challenge rides start in 2 weeks – it’s no use aiming to be fit in August when the big rides start in April and go through to July.
• Please don’t split the ride further into a range of A – Z rides, the numbers can’t justify it. Join the 9.00am 60 miler or the 2nd K Ride often led by Bernard if you think the Inters ride is too much (don’t go with Kevin though, he already has his hands full!)
• Big well done to Dr Dave for taking the initiative in the last month or so - Keep it up Doc!
• Most importantly, these Club rides are supposed to be FUN!! The more prescriptive you get, the greater the likelihood of dummy-spitting. And if you want to debate ride issues, do it in a café, even throw tea cakes at each other, but then leave it all out on the road.

In view of the upcoming Challenge rides and without wishing to prompt any further toy throwing, I would prefer to be doing a big ride this Saturday if we’re to be ready for Thixendale/Park Rash the following weekend.

D.

Looks like the thread has drawn out a good range of views - keep 'em coming folks!

The Met Office is currently suggesting wall to wall clear skies next Saturday so it may be time for the summer bike to emerge from hibernation. Of course the forecast is only provisional at this stage and can only get worse from where it is now but assuming it remains reasonable am I in order in starting to think about where we might go or is this premature? I was wondering about Egton Bridge but this will come in at nearer 100 than 90.......

I was wondering about Egton Bridge but this will come in at nearer 100 than 90.......

Dave

Not sure if I will be out yet this weekend will know better tomorrow but I did a ride a couple of years back which went out through Pickering. newton in rawcliffe and egton bridge and stopping at Danby visitors centre . then came back through castlton, hutton le hole etc, quite hilly and smack on 100 mile round trip from York.

Jon